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>As for forcing people to work so they are not a burden on society - that's just slavery with extra steps. But oh wait, I forgot that US still does that. Neverm

>As for forcing people to work so they are not a burden on society - that's just slavery with extra steps. But oh wait, I forgot that US still does that. Nevermind then. This is just a difference in our morality I guess. I don't think prison should be a great place to live. They should be incentivized to leave prison. And they aren't treated as slaves, they are learning a trade and applying those skills. They should be paid a lower wage, have the option to send money to their families, and fund the prisons themselves to some degree. We already this to a lesser degree. Prisons just aren't doing this enough. >Because prisons should never ever ever be money making institutions in a functional society. I can't believe I actually have to say this. I don't understand why prisons should not make money. Why does there be distinctions for things that should or shouldn't make money? For things to function well, they need to be decently funded. Whether that's from you and me or them funding themselves. >Of course they do, what are you on about. Okay, then I guess we live in different realities if you think black kids are doing well in inner city public schools.

gambiting 5y ago
>>This is just a difference in our morality I guess. I don't think prison should be a great place to live. They should be incentivized to leave prison No one said prisons should be nice. Just that we have empirical data which prison systems support rehabilitation and reintegration into society and which ones don't. American prisons aren't on the first list. They are disproportionately about revenge and retribution, which leads to low rehabilitation rates. >>They should be incentivized to leave prison Let me get this straight - you think current prison system doesn't incentivize leaving prison enough? >>I don't understand why prisons should not make money. Why does there be distinctions for things that should or shouldn't make money? Because it creates a whole lot of perverse incentives that simply shouldn't exist around the prison system. Incentives to both keep people longer than necessary in prisons as well as put them in prisons in the first place if they are places to make money. And it's not just a made up fear - there have been judges in the US found to be doing exactly this, taking cash bribes to send people to for-profit prisons. That profit making incentives shouldn't exist. Just like schools shouldn't be making profit, just like hospitals shouldn't be making profits - they are utilities for the society, not profit centres. Or at least in a well adjusted society they shouldn't be. As soon as you introduce profit the incentives shift where they shouldn't. >>Okay, then I guess we live in different realities if you think black kids are doing well in inner city public schools. That wasn't your question though. You asked if public schools are doing black kids in inner cities any good. To which my answer is still the same - of course they do. If you'd like to ask your question again I'll answer it again.
- pedroma 5y ago
  >Let me get this straight - you think current prison system doesn't incentivize leaving prison enough? Yes, it doesn't. Many have nothing to look forward to outside of prison. I hate to use a movie as an example, but take a look at Shawshank Redemption. They should leave having gained something, maybe prisons can help inmates find employment for the skills they gained as they reach the end of their sentence. >Because it creates a whole lot of perverse incentives that simply shouldn't exist around the prison system. I view nothing as immune to corruption. It's just a matter of better alternatives. Ideally inmates are allocated more to prisons with high rates of success after serving their sentence, which gives prisons an incentive to get their inmates out and with marketable skills. >taking cash bribes to send people to for-profit prisons This is not exclusive to for-profit prisons. Prisons that have higher number of inmates can make an argument for a higher allocation of tax dollars. >Just like schools shouldn't be making profit, just like hospitals shouldn't be making profits - they are utilities for the society, not profit centres You've said this more than once, but I still don't see why they shouldn't be. All I hear is "they just shouldn't make money". Why? They're just going to play games to get more tax dollars if they're forced not to make any money themselves. Bad schools are allocated more funds, take the LA Unified School District for example -- some of the worse performing schools in the nation, yet some of the best funded public schools! If I'm pessimistic enough, I would even imagine the teachers and administration are not doing their job on purpose.

gambiting 5y ago

>>This is just a difference in our morality I guess. I don't think prison should be a great place to live. They should be incentivized to leave prison No one said prisons should be nice. Just that we have empirical data which prison systems support rehabilitation and reintegration into society and which ones don't. American prisons aren't on the first list. They are disproportionately about revenge and retribution, which leads to low rehabilitation rates. >>They should be incentivized to leave prison Let me get this straight - you think current prison system doesn't incentivize leaving prison enough? >>I don't understand why prisons should not make money. Why does there be distinctions for things that should or shouldn't make money? Because it creates a whole lot of perverse incentives that simply shouldn't exist around the prison system. Incentives to both keep people longer than necessary in prisons as well as put them in prisons in the first place if they are places to make money. And it's not just a made up fear - there have been judges in the US found to be doing exactly this, taking cash bribes to send people to for-profit prisons. That profit making incentives shouldn't exist. Just like schools shouldn't be making profit, just like hospitals shouldn't be making profits - they are utilities for the society, not profit centres. Or at least in a well adjusted society they shouldn't be. As soon as you introduce profit the incentives shift where they shouldn't. >>Okay, then I guess we live in different realities if you think black kids are doing well in inner city public schools. That wasn't your question though. You asked if public schools are doing black kids in inner cities any good. To which my answer is still the same - of course they do. If you'd like to ask your question again I'll answer it again.

pedroma 5y ago
>Let me get this straight - you think current prison system doesn't incentivize leaving prison enough? Yes, it doesn't. Many have nothing to look forward to outside of prison. I hate to use a movie as an example, but take a look at Shawshank Redemption. They should leave having gained something, maybe prisons can help inmates find employment for the skills they gained as they reach the end of their sentence. >Because it creates a whole lot of perverse incentives that simply shouldn't exist around the prison system. I view nothing as immune to corruption. It's just a matter of better alternatives. Ideally inmates are allocated more to prisons with high rates of success after serving their sentence, which gives prisons an incentive to get their inmates out and with marketable skills. >taking cash bribes to send people to for-profit prisons This is not exclusive to for-profit prisons. Prisons that have higher number of inmates can make an argument for a higher allocation of tax dollars. >Just like schools shouldn't be making profit, just like hospitals shouldn't be making profits - they are utilities for the society, not profit centres You've said this more than once, but I still don't see why they shouldn't be. All I hear is "they just shouldn't make money". Why? They're just going to play games to get more tax dollars if they're forced not to make any money themselves. Bad schools are allocated more funds, take the LA Unified School District for example -- some of the worse performing schools in the nation, yet some of the best funded public schools! If I'm pessimistic enough, I would even imagine the teachers and administration are not doing their job on purpose.