2 ms·

The building's heating and cooling are just one part of the equation - you also have massive amounts of construction materials, lack of tree coverage, maintenan

The building's heating and cooling are just one part of the equation - you also have massive amounts of construction materials, lack of tree coverage, maintenance, transportation of materials to and from the building, etc. You did call these things out a bit in your post toward the end. I'd also argue the lack of local agriculture and the need to ship massive amounts of materials to skyscraper cities is an unaccounted for c02 emissions problem as well. > Hong Kong is so dense that not only is the "fifteen minute city" more than a reality for non-work trips, but most people are within a 15 minute walk or bus ride of massive shopping malls with department stores. I bet Munich or Amsterdam are 15 minute cities too and you don't need the skyscrapers (or at least as many). You also rightly called out that the car-oriented suburbs are big time carbon emitters. How will this change with electric cars? Will suburbs become more competitive with cities on a per-capita emissions basis? Idk. If they get close to parity that would be an alarming development for proponents of cities. I think the suburbs have a lot of potential if we could relax zoning laws and more people did things like have suburban gardens. The ideal state IMO are mixed-use, walkable and bike-able neighborhoods. They should incorporate the local environment well. If you live near the Mediterranean you paint your house white to keep it cool ad develop architectural characteristics. If you live in Ohio you have lots of tree cover, etc. Suburbs are undesirable for obvious reasons, but I think cities will be/are undesirable for other less understood reasons. Right now people in America look to them and say hey look they have great c02 emissions but it depends on what you compare them to. Do small towns and villages in Normandy have worse per-capita c02 emissions? We also have to consider there is an acceptable level of c02 emissions either way, we don't need to race to the bottom. Overall I'd say if we focus on living sustainably, and reduce the need for nation-state level manufacturing and support, we'd be better off.

bobthepanda 5y ago
I have the opposite opinion; skyscrapers minimize the amount of land used for housing, so they are fantastic at reducing land impact. Disconnected lawns or apartment courtyards and single street trees are far too small to provide a meaningful, thriving ecosystem, particularly for roaming animals. Hong Kong's extreme density, meanwhile, allows 40% of the territory's land to be uninterrupted natural habitat. The lack of local agriculture is a far greater issue than just what skyscrapers enable. At least in the US (I'm sure in Europe as well) the seasonality of food is no longer a huge deal for availability because we're willing to ship produce halfway around the world, and that's a problem for both cities and suburbs. I'm not super confident that the timeline for our electricity getting green is going to proceed at the pace required. And there are also lots of other things electric cars don't fix, like extensive amounts of roadway runoff from roads and parking lots, impact to physical habitats, higher energy use, etc. There still isn't a great heating or cooling solution that is both low energy and works in temperature extremes, and your US suburban homeowner would balk at buying a property without AC.
- ericmay 5y ago
  > I have the opposite opinion; skyscrapers minimize the amount of land used for housing, so they are fantastic at reducing land impact. I don't think land impact (assuming we're talking about the same thing) is much of an issue. Most places in Europe for example, these small towns and whatnot live quite ok with nature without having to concentrate all human activity into a city. > The lack of local agriculture is a far greater issue than just what skyscrapers enable. At least in the US (I'm sure in Europe as well) the seasonality of food is no longer a huge deal for availability because we're willing to ship produce halfway around the world, and that's a problem for both cities and suburbs. Yes but they make the problem worse. Nobody in NYC can farm, for example. I can grow a decent vegetable garden in my backyard in the suburbs (and I do). These cities also enable excess population density which require all of these things to be flown and shipped in because it's impossible to get locally. Suburbs even do a better job than this. I'm not super confident that the timeline for our electricity getting green is going to proceed at the pace required. And there are also lots of other things electric cars don't fix, like extensive amounts of roadway runoff from roads and parking lots, impact to physical habitats, higher energy use, etc. There still isn't a great heating or cooling solution that is both low energy and works in temperature extremes, The solution is to look back to what worked in the past for inspiration. Tree coverage, specific construction materials, etc. > and your US suburban homeowner would balk at buying a property without AC. Yea... and nobody is buying a condo in NYC without air conditioning or heat either.

bobthepanda 5y ago

I have the opposite opinion; skyscrapers minimize the amount of land used for housing, so they are fantastic at reducing land impact. Disconnected lawns or apartment courtyards and single street trees are far too small to provide a meaningful, thriving ecosystem, particularly for roaming animals. Hong Kong's extreme density, meanwhile, allows 40% of the territory's land to be uninterrupted natural habitat. The lack of local agriculture is a far greater issue than just what skyscrapers enable. At least in the US (I'm sure in Europe as well) the seasonality of food is no longer a huge deal for availability because we're willing to ship produce halfway around the world, and that's a problem for both cities and suburbs. I'm not super confident that the timeline for our electricity getting green is going to proceed at the pace required. And there are also lots of other things electric cars don't fix, like extensive amounts of roadway runoff from roads and parking lots, impact to physical habitats, higher energy use, etc. There still isn't a great heating or cooling solution that is both low energy and works in temperature extremes, and your US suburban homeowner would balk at buying a property without AC.

ericmay 5y ago
> I have the opposite opinion; skyscrapers minimize the amount of land used for housing, so they are fantastic at reducing land impact. I don't think land impact (assuming we're talking about the same thing) is much of an issue. Most places in Europe for example, these small towns and whatnot live quite ok with nature without having to concentrate all human activity into a city. > The lack of local agriculture is a far greater issue than just what skyscrapers enable. At least in the US (I'm sure in Europe as well) the seasonality of food is no longer a huge deal for availability because we're willing to ship produce halfway around the world, and that's a problem for both cities and suburbs. Yes but they make the problem worse. Nobody in NYC can farm, for example. I can grow a decent vegetable garden in my backyard in the suburbs (and I do). These cities also enable excess population density which require all of these things to be flown and shipped in because it's impossible to get locally. Suburbs even do a better job than this. I'm not super confident that the timeline for our electricity getting green is going to proceed at the pace required. And there are also lots of other things electric cars don't fix, like extensive amounts of roadway runoff from roads and parking lots, impact to physical habitats, higher energy use, etc. There still isn't a great heating or cooling solution that is both low energy and works in temperature extremes, The solution is to look back to what worked in the past for inspiration. Tree coverage, specific construction materials, etc. > and your US suburban homeowner would balk at buying a property without AC. Yea... and nobody is buying a condo in NYC without air conditioning or heat either.