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Based on heat and people coming and going, police assumed it was a cannabis farm . Based on that incorrect conclusion, they raided the place. Flimsy evidence.

Hamuko 5y ago
Didn't they raid the place because they knew that they were stealing electricity?
- nuclearnice1 5y ago
  Good point it sounds like the had a tip about that and some follow up with Western Power Distribution.
  - Ensorceled 5y ago
    Sooo ... not flimsy evidence?
    - nuclearnice1 5y ago
      Yeah, tip + follow up. Not just heat + many people. Why do you write “Sooo..”
Ensorceled 5y ago
A report from the public, unusual activity for the location, lots of heat that can't be explained by official electrical usage and, probably, not explained by the registered or zoned usage (probably light industrial). Sounds like more than enough to get a warrant.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  I personally would hope that wouldn’t be enough (at least in the US). I don’t see anything in the above list of facts that rises to articulable probable cause that a specific crime is being committed. (Maybe you could tighten the analysis a bit to get to PC that electricity or gas are being stolen. I’d be OK with that.)
  - Ensorceled 5y ago
    You have a ton of heat with no power source to generate that heat ... so either they are stealing the electricity or have an illegal power plant of some kind. That is enough for a warrant for the electricity theft. The other evidence leads to their guess on what they think the electricity is being stolen for, but electricity was definitely being stolen. What more do you want here?
    - sokoloff 5y ago
      If the heat is beyond what could be produced by a high-efficiency heat pump and other heat sources, I agree there’s likely PC (and I think I said so, or at least tried to).
pjc50 5y ago
Entirely normal evidence for raiding cannabis farms. I'm not sure what more you'd reasonably expect to find.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  > I'm not sure what more you'd reasonably expect to find. Literally any sort of activity that uses electrical ovens. I can think of dozens of processes for the manufacture of plastic, ceramic and metal items where you're gonna want to bake stuff. Edit: Apparently it wasn't obvious I was disagree about the assertion that "Based on heat and people coming and going" is normal justification for raiding a pot grow op and not this specific case where a warehouse that is supposedly disconnected is using tons of power. Also, it seems like a whole lot of people here don't understand that it is very common for facilities to be occupied by a tenant that's not the owner and who doesn't have any signage out front. If you're going in with a preconceived notion that you're looking for a grow op it's really easy to misread things done out of economic convenience as though they were intentional obfuscation.
  - paulcole 5y ago
    Yep. My nan runs a secret bakery. Does she deserve the cops breathing down her neck?
    - rjmunro 5y ago
      If her ovens are rigged to bypass the electricity meters, then yes, she does. If she had a large bitcoin mining operation going on, and used the profit to pay an electricity bill that was in the right ball park, then the cops would leave her alone.
  - mytailorisrich 5y ago
    They don't raid a place based on high electricity consumption or heat alone. They do when this is not expected and suspicious based on other factors as well. For instance a domestic property or, in this case, a warehouse that officially uses no electricity. If you rent a warehouse to run your official glass baubles manufacturing business then no-one is going to bat an eyelid about heat or electricity use.
mschuster91 5y ago
The heat thing is even more ridiculous, given that farmers have shifted to LED lighting for years now precisely to avoid heat emission that can be picked up by police copters...
- scatters 5y ago
  The power still ends up as heat; LEDs just mean that less of it is wasted.
  - tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
    Which means that a lot less power input is needed for the same light output, which means less waste heat (should be around 10-20% of the heat an incandescent setup creates).
  - mschuster91 5y ago
    ... and as a result, you need less heat and thus the chance of being detected by a thermal copter or melting snow on the roof is lower.
- jhgb 5y ago
  > to avoid heat emission that can be picked up by police copters Sounds like farmers need some kind of heat rejection system.
the-dude 5y ago
Lots of traffic to a flat, neighbours complaining. Police suspect a cocaine dealer and raid the place. However : the dealer was selling heroine. Flimsy evidence?
- Humdeee 5y ago
  The 'ol switcheroo.
- nuclearnice1 5y ago
  I vote flimsy. Lots of people get many visitors. Right? What’s your take?

Hamuko 5y ago

Didn't they raid the place because they knew that they were stealing electricity?

nuclearnice1 5y ago
Good point it sounds like the had a tip about that and some follow up with Western Power Distribution.
- Ensorceled 5y ago
  Sooo ... not flimsy evidence?
  - nuclearnice1 5y ago
    Yeah, tip + follow up. Not just heat + many people. Why do you write “Sooo..”

Ensorceled 5y ago

A report from the public, unusual activity for the location, lots of heat that can't be explained by official electrical usage and, probably, not explained by the registered or zoned usage (probably light industrial). Sounds like more than enough to get a warrant.

sokoloff 5y ago
I personally would hope that wouldn’t be enough (at least in the US). I don’t see anything in the above list of facts that rises to articulable probable cause that a specific crime is being committed. (Maybe you could tighten the analysis a bit to get to PC that electricity or gas are being stolen. I’d be OK with that.)
- Ensorceled 5y ago
  You have a ton of heat with no power source to generate that heat ... so either they are stealing the electricity or have an illegal power plant of some kind. That is enough for a warrant for the electricity theft. The other evidence leads to their guess on what they think the electricity is being stolen for, but electricity was definitely being stolen. What more do you want here?
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    If the heat is beyond what could be produced by a high-efficiency heat pump and other heat sources, I agree there’s likely PC (and I think I said so, or at least tried to).

pjc50 5y ago

Entirely normal evidence for raiding cannabis farms. I'm not sure what more you'd reasonably expect to find.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
> I'm not sure what more you'd reasonably expect to find. Literally any sort of activity that uses electrical ovens. I can think of dozens of processes for the manufacture of plastic, ceramic and metal items where you're gonna want to bake stuff. Edit: Apparently it wasn't obvious I was disagree about the assertion that "Based on heat and people coming and going" is normal justification for raiding a pot grow op and not this specific case where a warehouse that is supposedly disconnected is using tons of power. Also, it seems like a whole lot of people here don't understand that it is very common for facilities to be occupied by a tenant that's not the owner and who doesn't have any signage out front. If you're going in with a preconceived notion that you're looking for a grow op it's really easy to misread things done out of economic convenience as though they were intentional obfuscation.
- paulcole 5y ago
  Yep. My nan runs a secret bakery. Does she deserve the cops breathing down her neck?
  - rjmunro 5y ago
    If her ovens are rigged to bypass the electricity meters, then yes, she does. If she had a large bitcoin mining operation going on, and used the profit to pay an electricity bill that was in the right ball park, then the cops would leave her alone.
- mytailorisrich 5y ago
  They don't raid a place based on high electricity consumption or heat alone. They do when this is not expected and suspicious based on other factors as well. For instance a domestic property or, in this case, a warehouse that officially uses no electricity. If you rent a warehouse to run your official glass baubles manufacturing business then no-one is going to bat an eyelid about heat or electricity use.

mschuster91 5y ago

The heat thing is even more ridiculous, given that farmers have shifted to LED lighting for years now precisely to avoid heat emission that can be picked up by police copters...

scatters 5y ago
The power still ends up as heat; LEDs just mean that less of it is wasted.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
  Which means that a lot less power input is needed for the same light output, which means less waste heat (should be around 10-20% of the heat an incandescent setup creates).
- mschuster91 5y ago
  ... and as a result, you need less heat and thus the chance of being detected by a thermal copter or melting snow on the roof is lower.
jhgb 5y ago
> to avoid heat emission that can be picked up by police copters Sounds like farmers need some kind of heat rejection system.

the-dude 5y ago

Lots of traffic to a flat, neighbours complaining. Police suspect a cocaine dealer and raid the place. However : the dealer was selling heroine. Flimsy evidence?

Humdeee 5y ago
The 'ol switcheroo.
nuclearnice1 5y ago
I vote flimsy. Lots of people get many visitors. Right? What’s your take?