4 ms·

There is a browser without bugs?

by rimliu 5y ago

realusername 5y ago
Not really no but there's a very large tech gap between both Chrome (plus associated) and Firefox and on the other hand Safari which feels like it's in "maintenance mode".
- robertoandred 5y ago
  No, there's not.
  - realusername 5y ago
    Just have a look at the latest release: https://webkit.org/blog/11648/new-webkit-features-in-safari-14-1/ https://webkit.org/blog/11648/new-webkit-features-in-safari-.... Most of those features are at least 5 years late. And there's all the quirks additionally to all of that.
    - robertoandred 5y ago
      Chrome got flex gap a year ago, Firefox got Paint Timing and Intl stuff a few months ago, Chrome doesn't have individual transforms yet, Firefox doesn't have private class fields yet, and Safari supported Web Speech years before either Chrome or Firefox. I suspect you either didn't read those release notes fully or you don't fully understand what they mean.
rashil2000 5y ago
No, but Safari routinely causes many problems that seem utterly basic for Firefox/Chrome.
- rimliu 5y ago
  Because you develop on Chrome, and only occasionally test on Safari. Try the other way around and see which one is buggy.
  - realusername 5y ago
    I develop on Firefox, everything is fine on Chrome but there's always some bugs in Safari.
  - mmis1000 5y ago
    Like safari ignores layer ordering during scroll? Which is something that god damn ie6 15 years ago can do properly? Is z-index even a new feature whatever? The safari basically can't even guarantee it can do other browser done properly many years ago (or you can say it is buggy even you only use css 2 feature).
  - danaris 5y ago
    I think this really needs to be emphasized strongly. I develop primarily on Safari, and only occasionally test on Chrome (for my hobby side project), and occasionally I run into instances where Chrome differs. To me, those look like Chrome bugs because Safari is my "default". If you're using Chrome (or Firefox, which, in my recent experience, tries specifically to be compatible with Chrome because Chrome is the overwhelming default for people like IE was) primarily, and expecting Safari to exactly match its behavior, of course you'll run into various cases where Safari appears buggy. But to use that to claim that Safari is "the new IE6" is just ludicrous. I don't know how old other people in this thread are—maybe those making the comparison to Safari weren't actually around for the IE era, or maybe it's just been so long you've forgotten how bad it really was—but I was actually doing some web development back when IE6 and even IE4 were common. They were an absolute nightmare. I don't recall the precise details at this late date, but there were fairly basic HTML tags they didn't implement, and others they implemented completely differently. Javascript features were all over the map. That realusername has to dig up four fairly esoteric edge-case issues to show that Safari is "total nonsense", and then have HatchedLake point out that at least two of those aren't even current, is ample proof that it's the comparison of IE to Safari that's total nonsense.
bryanrasmussen 5y ago
so - is this your defense of IE11 as well? There are several questions regarding bugs - how many are there, how difficult are they to find, how difficult are they to fix. It seems that there are many Safari bugs that are difficult to find, and to fix, which makes them worse than other browsers. In this case I believe the bug is actually difficult to find, this guy found it but I bet a lot of developers just went and ahead and wrote it down as a bug with safari, can't or won't fix. But now we know it's an easy fix - don't write Welcome Back in a page if you don't want this behavior. My question is if your language is another one - like lang="DE" will it then have the same behavior on a page with the German version of Welcome Back. Are there other magic strings that serve the same purpose as Welcome Back in Safari's mind. on edit: changed difficult to fix to difficult to find.
- realusername 5y ago
  Yes that's it, I don't think I encountered a bug which is truly "unfixable" on Safari, there's always been some workaround one way or another but all of those random nonsense issues do take a lot of time to investigate so there's a lot of developers who will just give up.
- rimliu 5y ago
  I am not defending anything. Just wondering. I have literally decades of the web dev experience, I had to do pixel perfect CSS layouts for IE5. These comparisons are stupid beyond belief.
  - zwily 5y ago
    Yeah, I suspect the people saying Safari is the new IE didn’t actually have to really support an old IE version 15 years ago. It’s really not comparable.

There is a browser without bugs?

by rimliu 5y ago

There is a browser without bugs?

Not really no but there's a very large tech gap between both Chrome (plus associated) and Firefox and on the other hand Safari which feels like it's in "maintenance mode".

robertoandred 5y ago
No, there's not.
- realusername 5y ago
  Just have a look at the latest release: https://webkit.org/blog/11648/new-webkit-features-in-safari-14-1/ https://webkit.org/blog/11648/new-webkit-features-in-safari-.... Most of those features are at least 5 years late. And there's all the quirks additionally to all of that.
  - robertoandred 5y ago
    Chrome got flex gap a year ago, Firefox got Paint Timing and Intl stuff a few months ago, Chrome doesn't have individual transforms yet, Firefox doesn't have private class fields yet, and Safari supported Web Speech years before either Chrome or Firefox. I suspect you either didn't read those release notes fully or you don't fully understand what they mean.

rashil2000 5y ago

No, but Safari routinely causes many problems that seem utterly basic for Firefox/Chrome.

rimliu 5y ago
Because you develop on Chrome, and only occasionally test on Safari. Try the other way around and see which one is buggy.
- realusername 5y ago
  I develop on Firefox, everything is fine on Chrome but there's always some bugs in Safari.
- mmis1000 5y ago
  Like safari ignores layer ordering during scroll? Which is something that god damn ie6 15 years ago can do properly? Is z-index even a new feature whatever? The safari basically can't even guarantee it can do other browser done properly many years ago (or you can say it is buggy even you only use css 2 feature).
- danaris 5y ago
  I think this really needs to be emphasized strongly. I develop primarily on Safari, and only occasionally test on Chrome (for my hobby side project), and occasionally I run into instances where Chrome differs. To me, those look like Chrome bugs because Safari is my "default". If you're using Chrome (or Firefox, which, in my recent experience, tries specifically to be compatible with Chrome because Chrome is the overwhelming default for people like IE was) primarily, and expecting Safari to exactly match its behavior, of course you'll run into various cases where Safari appears buggy. But to use that to claim that Safari is "the new IE6" is just ludicrous. I don't know how old other people in this thread are—maybe those making the comparison to Safari weren't actually around for the IE era, or maybe it's just been so long you've forgotten how bad it really was—but I was actually doing some web development back when IE6 and even IE4 were common. They were an absolute nightmare. I don't recall the precise details at this late date, but there were fairly basic HTML tags they didn't implement, and others they implemented completely differently. Javascript features were all over the map. That realusername has to dig up four fairly esoteric edge-case issues to show that Safari is "total nonsense", and then have HatchedLake point out that at least two of those aren't even current, is ample proof that it's the comparison of IE to Safari that's total nonsense.

bryanrasmussen 5y ago

so - is this your defense of IE11 as well? There are several questions regarding bugs - how many are there, how difficult are they to find, how difficult are they to fix. It seems that there are many Safari bugs that are difficult to find, and to fix, which makes them worse than other browsers. In this case I believe the bug is actually difficult to find, this guy found it but I bet a lot of developers just went and ahead and wrote it down as a bug with safari, can't or won't fix. But now we know it's an easy fix - don't write Welcome Back in a page if you don't want this behavior. My question is if your language is another one - like lang="DE" will it then have the same behavior on a page with the German version of Welcome Back. Are there other magic strings that serve the same purpose as Welcome Back in Safari's mind. on edit: changed difficult to fix to difficult to find.

realusername 5y ago
Yes that's it, I don't think I encountered a bug which is truly "unfixable" on Safari, there's always been some workaround one way or another but all of those random nonsense issues do take a lot of time to investigate so there's a lot of developers who will just give up.
rimliu 5y ago
I am not defending anything. Just wondering. I have literally decades of the web dev experience, I had to do pixel perfect CSS layouts for IE5. These comparisons are stupid beyond belief.
- zwily 5y ago
  Yeah, I suspect the people saying Safari is the new IE didn’t actually have to really support an old IE version 15 years ago. It’s really not comparable.