9 ms·

Such as?

realusername 5y ago
Like SVG background issues https://stackoverflow.com/questions/40986798/repeated-svg-background-gaps-in-safari https://stackoverflow.com/questions/40986798/repeated-svg-ba... clicking issues https://stackoverflow.com/questions/24077725/mobile-safari-sometimes-does-not-trigger-the-click-event https://stackoverflow.com/questions/24077725/mobile-safari-s... (yeah even clicks are broken) background jank https://stackoverflow.com/questions/9983520/webkit-animation-is-leaving-junk-pixels-behind-on-the-screen/17822836 https://stackoverflow.com/questions/9983520/webkit-animation... (not sure it's exactly this bug but I do have fixes in the codebase for that) round corners https://stackoverflow.com/questions/50995411/cant-set-border-radius-on-div-enclosing-video https://stackoverflow.com/questions/50995411/cant-set-border... (still happening right now) And countless other JS and CSS bugs I forgot I have in the codebase. There's scrolling bugs, navigation bugs, layout bugs, form bugs... I'm sorry to say but nothing really "fully works" it's always slightly off one way or another.
- rimliu 5y ago
  There is a browser without bugs?
  - realusername 5y ago
    Not really no but there's a very large tech gap between both Chrome (plus associated) and Firefox and on the other hand Safari which feels like it's in "maintenance mode".
    - robertoandred 5y ago
      No, there's not.
      - realusername 5y ago
        Just have a look at the latest release: https://webkit.org/blog/11648/new-webkit-features-in-safari-14-1/ https://webkit.org/blog/11648/new-webkit-features-in-safari-.... Most of those features are at least 5 years late. And there's all the quirks additionally to all of that.
        robertoandred 5y ago
        Chrome got flex gap a year ago, Firefox got Paint Timing and Intl stuff a few months ago, Chrome doesn't have individual transforms yet, Firefox doesn't have private class fields yet, and Safari supported Web Speech years before either Chrome or Firefox. I suspect you either didn't read those release notes fully or you don't fully understand what they mean.
  - rashil2000 5y ago
    No, but Safari routinely causes many problems that seem utterly basic for Firefox/Chrome.
    - rimliu 5y ago
      Because you develop on Chrome, and only occasionally test on Safari. Try the other way around and see which one is buggy.
      - realusername 5y ago
        I develop on Firefox, everything is fine on Chrome but there's always some bugs in Safari.
      - mmis1000 5y ago
        Like safari ignores layer ordering during scroll? Which is something that god damn ie6 15 years ago can do properly? Is z-index even a new feature whatever? The safari basically can't even guarantee it can do other browser done properly many years ago (or you can say it is buggy even you only use css 2 feature).
      - danaris 5y ago
        I think this really needs to be emphasized strongly. I develop primarily on Safari, and only occasionally test on Chrome (for my hobby side project), and occasionally I run into instances where Chrome differs. To me, those look like Chrome bugs because Safari is my "default". If you're using Chrome (or Firefox, which, in my recent experience, tries specifically to be compatible with Chrome because Chrome is the overwhelming default for people like IE was) primarily, and expecting Safari to exactly match its behavior, of course you'll run into various cases where Safari appears buggy. But to use that to claim that Safari is "the new IE6" is just ludicrous. I don't know how old other people in this thread are—maybe those making the comparison to Safari weren't actually around for the IE era, or maybe it's just been so long you've forgotten how bad it really was—but I was actually doing some web development back when IE6 and even IE4 were common. They were an absolute nightmare. I don't recall the precise details at this late date, but there were fairly basic HTML tags they didn't implement, and others they implemented completely differently. Javascript features were all over the map. That realusername has to dig up four fairly esoteric edge-case issues to show that Safari is "total nonsense", and then have HatchedLake point out that at least two of those aren't even current, is ample proof that it's the comparison of IE to Safari that's total nonsense.
  - bryanrasmussen 5y ago
    so - is this your defense of IE11 as well? There are several questions regarding bugs - how many are there, how difficult are they to find, how difficult are they to fix. It seems that there are many Safari bugs that are difficult to find, and to fix, which makes them worse than other browsers. In this case I believe the bug is actually difficult to find, this guy found it but I bet a lot of developers just went and ahead and wrote it down as a bug with safari, can't or won't fix. But now we know it's an easy fix - don't write Welcome Back in a page if you don't want this behavior. My question is if your language is another one - like lang="DE" will it then have the same behavior on a page with the German version of Welcome Back. Are there other magic strings that serve the same purpose as Welcome Back in Safari's mind. on edit: changed difficult to fix to difficult to find.
    - realusername 5y ago
      Yes that's it, I don't think I encountered a bug which is truly "unfixable" on Safari, there's always been some workaround one way or another but all of those random nonsense issues do take a lot of time to investigate so there's a lot of developers who will just give up.
    - rimliu 5y ago
      I am not defending anything. Just wondering. I have literally decades of the web dev experience, I had to do pixel perfect CSS layouts for IE5. These comparisons are stupid beyond belief.
      - zwily 5y ago
        Yeah, I suspect the people saying Safari is the new IE didn’t actually have to really support an old IE version 15 years ago. It’s really not comparable.
- HatchedLake721 5y ago
  And these are "total nonsense" for you? - SVG background issue from 2016. Tested on my Safari Tech Preview 113 (Sep 2020), can't replicate. - Clicking issue. This is related to mouse event bubbling on iOS only (will affect both Safari and Chrome since they both use the same WebView). It's theorised that Apple set a specific set of rules when mouse events (on touch devices) will bubble up for performance/usability. Or it's just a bug. - A rendering issue from 2012. It's explained in your link this is related to pre iOS 7 era performance improvement by WebKit to only redraw those parts of an image that have changed. Sounds like a very reasonable thing to do, taking into account how Apple heavily pushed performance and battery savings on mobile/laptop devices a decade ago. - Round Corners. Tested on my Safari Tech Preview 113 (Sep 2020), can't replicate. I don't see how any of these are anywhere close to being "total nonsense", feels like you're being biased and just exaggerating on purpose to bash Safari. Chrome force logging in you when you use Gmail to hijack your privacy and link your browser history to an account sounds more "nonsense" than Apple focusing on performance/battery on mobile devices a decade ago that created a regression/new bug that requires 1 line to solve. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17942252 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17942252 I primarily use Safari for privacy/battery/performance reasons, and on my web app of 2 years with tons of styling I have 5 lines of scss code with "// safari" comment to make some elements render the same as Chrome. Never in my career writing a single digit line of additional css made me think "oh my god this is total nonsense". Everyone has to accept there will be differences from one browser engine to another, and from my personal experience, these are minimal and nowhere near IE6 back in the days.
  - saagarjha 5y ago
    Why are you running a Safari Technology Preview from last year?
    - HatchedLake721 5y ago
      I'm still on macOS Catalina. To upgrade the Safari Technology Preview, it wants Big Sur first and I just haven't got to upgrading my dev laptop yet. Something to do this weekend then!
  - 5y ago
matsemann 5y ago
A high percentage of SPAs are broken in Safari when using the back button, as it tries to fake "speed" by giving you the page exactly as it was in cache, and not fire it up from scratch with an updated context.

Such as?

Like SVG background issues https://stackoverflow.com/questions/40986798/repeated-svg-background-gaps-in-safari https://stackoverflow.com/questions/40986798/repeated-svg-ba... clicking issues https://stackoverflow.com/questions/24077725/mobile-safari-sometimes-does-not-trigger-the-click-event https://stackoverflow.com/questions/24077725/mobile-safari-s... (yeah even clicks are broken) background jank https://stackoverflow.com/questions/9983520/webkit-animation-is-leaving-junk-pixels-behind-on-the-screen/17822836 https://stackoverflow.com/questions/9983520/webkit-animation... (not sure it's exactly this bug but I do have fixes in the codebase for that) round corners https://stackoverflow.com/questions/50995411/cant-set-border-radius-on-div-enclosing-video https://stackoverflow.com/questions/50995411/cant-set-border... (still happening right now) And countless other JS and CSS bugs I forgot I have in the codebase. There's scrolling bugs, navigation bugs, layout bugs, form bugs... I'm sorry to say but nothing really "fully works" it's always slightly off one way or another.

rimliu 5y ago
There is a browser without bugs?
- realusername 5y ago
  Not really no but there's a very large tech gap between both Chrome (plus associated) and Firefox and on the other hand Safari which feels like it's in "maintenance mode".
  - robertoandred 5y ago
    No, there's not.
    - realusername 5y ago
      Just have a look at the latest release: https://webkit.org/blog/11648/new-webkit-features-in-safari-14-1/ https://webkit.org/blog/11648/new-webkit-features-in-safari-.... Most of those features are at least 5 years late. And there's all the quirks additionally to all of that.
      - robertoandred 5y ago
        Chrome got flex gap a year ago, Firefox got Paint Timing and Intl stuff a few months ago, Chrome doesn't have individual transforms yet, Firefox doesn't have private class fields yet, and Safari supported Web Speech years before either Chrome or Firefox. I suspect you either didn't read those release notes fully or you don't fully understand what they mean.
- rashil2000 5y ago
  No, but Safari routinely causes many problems that seem utterly basic for Firefox/Chrome.
  - rimliu 5y ago
    Because you develop on Chrome, and only occasionally test on Safari. Try the other way around and see which one is buggy.
    - realusername 5y ago
      I develop on Firefox, everything is fine on Chrome but there's always some bugs in Safari.
    - mmis1000 5y ago
      Like safari ignores layer ordering during scroll? Which is something that god damn ie6 15 years ago can do properly? Is z-index even a new feature whatever? The safari basically can't even guarantee it can do other browser done properly many years ago (or you can say it is buggy even you only use css 2 feature).
    - danaris 5y ago
      I think this really needs to be emphasized strongly. I develop primarily on Safari, and only occasionally test on Chrome (for my hobby side project), and occasionally I run into instances where Chrome differs. To me, those look like Chrome bugs because Safari is my "default". If you're using Chrome (or Firefox, which, in my recent experience, tries specifically to be compatible with Chrome because Chrome is the overwhelming default for people like IE was) primarily, and expecting Safari to exactly match its behavior, of course you'll run into various cases where Safari appears buggy. But to use that to claim that Safari is "the new IE6" is just ludicrous. I don't know how old other people in this thread are—maybe those making the comparison to Safari weren't actually around for the IE era, or maybe it's just been so long you've forgotten how bad it really was—but I was actually doing some web development back when IE6 and even IE4 were common. They were an absolute nightmare. I don't recall the precise details at this late date, but there were fairly basic HTML tags they didn't implement, and others they implemented completely differently. Javascript features were all over the map. That realusername has to dig up four fairly esoteric edge-case issues to show that Safari is "total nonsense", and then have HatchedLake point out that at least two of those aren't even current, is ample proof that it's the comparison of IE to Safari that's total nonsense.
- bryanrasmussen 5y ago
  so - is this your defense of IE11 as well? There are several questions regarding bugs - how many are there, how difficult are they to find, how difficult are they to fix. It seems that there are many Safari bugs that are difficult to find, and to fix, which makes them worse than other browsers. In this case I believe the bug is actually difficult to find, this guy found it but I bet a lot of developers just went and ahead and wrote it down as a bug with safari, can't or won't fix. But now we know it's an easy fix - don't write Welcome Back in a page if you don't want this behavior. My question is if your language is another one - like lang="DE" will it then have the same behavior on a page with the German version of Welcome Back. Are there other magic strings that serve the same purpose as Welcome Back in Safari's mind. on edit: changed difficult to fix to difficult to find.
  - realusername 5y ago
    Yes that's it, I don't think I encountered a bug which is truly "unfixable" on Safari, there's always been some workaround one way or another but all of those random nonsense issues do take a lot of time to investigate so there's a lot of developers who will just give up.
  - rimliu 5y ago
    I am not defending anything. Just wondering. I have literally decades of the web dev experience, I had to do pixel perfect CSS layouts for IE5. These comparisons are stupid beyond belief.
    - zwily 5y ago
      Yeah, I suspect the people saying Safari is the new IE didn’t actually have to really support an old IE version 15 years ago. It’s really not comparable.
HatchedLake721 5y ago
And these are "total nonsense" for you? - SVG background issue from 2016. Tested on my Safari Tech Preview 113 (Sep 2020), can't replicate. - Clicking issue. This is related to mouse event bubbling on iOS only (will affect both Safari and Chrome since they both use the same WebView). It's theorised that Apple set a specific set of rules when mouse events (on touch devices) will bubble up for performance/usability. Or it's just a bug. - A rendering issue from 2012. It's explained in your link this is related to pre iOS 7 era performance improvement by WebKit to only redraw those parts of an image that have changed. Sounds like a very reasonable thing to do, taking into account how Apple heavily pushed performance and battery savings on mobile/laptop devices a decade ago. - Round Corners. Tested on my Safari Tech Preview 113 (Sep 2020), can't replicate. I don't see how any of these are anywhere close to being "total nonsense", feels like you're being biased and just exaggerating on purpose to bash Safari. Chrome force logging in you when you use Gmail to hijack your privacy and link your browser history to an account sounds more "nonsense" than Apple focusing on performance/battery on mobile devices a decade ago that created a regression/new bug that requires 1 line to solve. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17942252 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17942252 I primarily use Safari for privacy/battery/performance reasons, and on my web app of 2 years with tons of styling I have 5 lines of scss code with "// safari" comment to make some elements render the same as Chrome. Never in my career writing a single digit line of additional css made me think "oh my god this is total nonsense". Everyone has to accept there will be differences from one browser engine to another, and from my personal experience, these are minimal and nowhere near IE6 back in the days.
- saagarjha 5y ago
  Why are you running a Safari Technology Preview from last year?
  - HatchedLake721 5y ago
    I'm still on macOS Catalina. To upgrade the Safari Technology Preview, it wants Big Sur first and I just haven't got to upgrading my dev laptop yet. Something to do this weekend then!
- 5y ago

matsemann 5y ago

A high percentage of SPAs are broken in Safari when using the back button, as it tries to fake "speed" by giving you the page exactly as it was in cache, and not fire it up from scratch with an updated context.