4 ms·

Tesla: If you get a job in Germany, they can kick you out anytime

4 points by plmoknf 5y ago

plmoknf 5y ago
Brutally written "... my employment will be at will and for no definite period, and that my employment may be terminated, at any time, with or without cause and with or without prior notice" This is such a horrible move by Tesla
- dagw 5y ago
  It's going to be interesting to see how it plays out. These sorts of conditions are completely normal in the US. If they are successful at introducing this sort US work culture into Germany I can see many other US tech company will follow suit, and the European tech companies following. What's the union situation like in Germany? Will they fight it?
  - zuzun 5y ago
    No union needed, it's not legal. Getting around the statutory notice period isn't possible, unless the employment is on a temporary basis not exceeding three months. If they had no more than 20 employees, they could limit the notice period to one month, but that's it.
  - _Microft 5y ago
    I do not see why it would need unions to fight that. It's just not legal here. It is four weeks minimum period of notice and it increases the longer an employee works for the same employer, up to seven month for twenty years of job tenure. Two weeks during the first six month of new employees. Other agreements can be made but only if it improves the situation of the employee. German: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bgb/__622.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bgb/__622.html
    - offtop5 5y ago
      Couldn't Tesla agreed to pay out 4 weeks of salary instead.
      - Arnt 5y ago
        Four weeks is the legal minimum if you've worked at a German company for two years. Plus the notice period, which is often three months for software developers.
      - _Microft 5y ago
        Such things are possible if both sides agree on an annulment contract. Tesla themselves could not do that on their own. (The employee should better be aware that they still forfeit unemployment benefits if they do not announce their leaving of a job to the unemployment office in advance.)
- mytailorisrich 5y ago
  No expert but I doubt this is possible in Germany. I suspect that they have not updated their jobs website to match specific jurisdictions and that this sentence has no value in this case.
- _Microft 5y ago
  Where does it say that? I don't see this or parts of this sentence on the linked website. This is how the linked page looks like for me: https://imgur.com/a/x0Xuiau https://imgur.com/a/x0Xuiau
  - square_usual 5y ago
    I assume it comes up if you go deeper into the process, and you can't share that page with the public. Not sure, though, as I'm not about to go apply for a job just to verify a vague HN post...
  - plmoknf 5y ago
    https://imgur.com/a/gqXGw1S https://imgur.com/a/gqXGw1S

4 points by plmoknf 5y ago

Brutally written "... my employment will be at will and for no definite period, and that my employment may be terminated, at any time, with or without cause and with or without prior notice" This is such a horrible move by Tesla

dagw 5y ago
It's going to be interesting to see how it plays out. These sorts of conditions are completely normal in the US. If they are successful at introducing this sort US work culture into Germany I can see many other US tech company will follow suit, and the European tech companies following. What's the union situation like in Germany? Will they fight it?
- zuzun 5y ago
  No union needed, it's not legal. Getting around the statutory notice period isn't possible, unless the employment is on a temporary basis not exceeding three months. If they had no more than 20 employees, they could limit the notice period to one month, but that's it.
- _Microft 5y ago
  I do not see why it would need unions to fight that. It's just not legal here. It is four weeks minimum period of notice and it increases the longer an employee works for the same employer, up to seven month for twenty years of job tenure. Two weeks during the first six month of new employees. Other agreements can be made but only if it improves the situation of the employee. German: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bgb/__622.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bgb/__622.html
  - offtop5 5y ago
    Couldn't Tesla agreed to pay out 4 weeks of salary instead.
    - Arnt 5y ago
      Four weeks is the legal minimum if you've worked at a German company for two years. Plus the notice period, which is often three months for software developers.
    - _Microft 5y ago
      Such things are possible if both sides agree on an annulment contract. Tesla themselves could not do that on their own. (The employee should better be aware that they still forfeit unemployment benefits if they do not announce their leaving of a job to the unemployment office in advance.)
mytailorisrich 5y ago
No expert but I doubt this is possible in Germany. I suspect that they have not updated their jobs website to match specific jurisdictions and that this sentence has no value in this case.
_Microft 5y ago
Where does it say that? I don't see this or parts of this sentence on the linked website. This is how the linked page looks like for me: https://imgur.com/a/x0Xuiau https://imgur.com/a/x0Xuiau
- square_usual 5y ago
  I assume it comes up if you go deeper into the process, and you can't share that page with the public. Not sure, though, as I'm not about to go apply for a job just to verify a vague HN post...
- plmoknf 5y ago
  https://imgur.com/a/gqXGw1S https://imgur.com/a/gqXGw1S