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> So what actually changed? The Journal article that sourced actual intelligence sources pointing to an outbreak among lab researchers at exactly the right tim

> So what actually changed? The Journal article that sourced actual intelligence sources pointing to an outbreak among lab researchers at exactly the right time to plausibly explain the pandemic is most of it. Evidence (actual evidence, not the circumstantial nonsense being peddled about by partisans) convinces people. Isn't that what you want to happen? But clearly it's NOT what you want to happen. You want everyone to come back grovelling admitting how you were clearly right about everything the whole time. But... you weren't. Evidence was poor then, and if not good now at least plausibly acceptable. You need to be thanking those Journal reporters, who saved you from your own paranoia.

dcow 5y ago
What? There was real evidence weeks after. And then the Chinese journalist trying to share it was detained. There was even a github repo linking together all the different leads. And you didn't listen because it wasn't socially acceptable to enter that realm of possibilities because it felt dirty.
- newacct583 5y ago
  > the Chinese journalist trying to share it was detained. There was even a github repo linking together all the different leads OK, no. That's not the evidence people are talking about, even now. That's the garbage that fed the conspiracy theory. Find me a reputable source who's flipped on the garbage. What you're finding is people changing their priors based on good evidence, not deciding to believe garbage.
  - dcow 5y ago
    I don't claim to know all the details. Can you explain how a whistleblower being detained is “garbage evidence” or which of the events was garbage? I’d like to understand where you’re coming from.
    - justicezyx 5y ago
      Where is the report of this?
      - dcow 5y ago
        That’s the problem, almost all media that didn't immediately denounce the events was “canceled”. I can’t even find the original thread on HN about Chinese virologists whistleblowers (there have been multiple) being detained before things got political. Maybe someone else can. There is an almost fair report of the events surrounding specifically Dr Yan on CNN but you really have to read the whole piece because the attempt at an exploration of Yan’s claims that isn't obviously politically motivated is buried at the end. Summary: whistleblower tries to flee China, is detained in Hong Kong, Bannon and Guo money help her out. She hastily publishes her “research” (evidence) without any peer review because of the urgency. The entire left media sphere jumps on her because of the Bannon link. Her Twitter is banned and FB and other “fact check” orgs brand her claims as indisputably false solely on political grounds. One such fact check has since been revoked. She has just as much standing as anybody claiming natural origin of the virus but was de-platformed because she said the wrong thing which associated her with the wrong people. NOW: other people are actually doing the research themselves and it appears that the only real explanation for how the virus evolved the features it has is via a gain of function process that would only ever really be used if you were trying to develop a bioweapon. HN lefties are in denial and claim that we have “new evidence” when exactly zero facts have changed. Other people are just taking a more serious look at the data.. The media looks like fools. Twitter and FB yet again censored truth in pursuit of a narrative. It’s a huge mess. At this point the best thing to do might just be to follow Yan’s twitter account. Her motives check out: why would somebody make an otherwise career-ending move (if they’re wrong) by coming forward with claims that covid was lab leaked if you weren’t absolutely sure of yourself? Of course that doesn't make her right, by virtue, but history seems to be taking care of that.
        justicezyx 5y ago
        Are you referring to Limeng Yan? [1] She was not a virologist. She is a Post-Doctoral Researcher Field in Medicine: """She earned a PhD in ophthalmology from Southern Medical University in Guangzhou,[2][3] and sources differ on whether beforehand she received an MD degree[2] or a master's degree in ophthalmology[3] from Xiangya Medical College of Central South University in China.[13] She was a postdoctoral fellow at the University of Hong Kong.[14] """ She was not detained anywhere. Think about it, if she was detained, Trump and the gang will make it known to everyone 24 * 7. Her mother probably was harassed by netizens, that's very likely. And see how sloppy the media report can be in [2], she was not a virologist, but was labeled so by NewsWeek. I used to read NewsWeek everyday in my university's library when I was studying for GRE and applying for US PhD program. The quality was better then. > She has just as much standing as anybody claiming natural origin of the virus but was de-platformed because she said the wrong thing which associated her with the wrong people. She has as much standing as any non-expert... That's all I can conclude from [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li-Meng_Yan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li-Meng_Yan [2] https://www.newsweek.com/chinese-virologist-mon-arrested-china-covid-lab-conspiracy-theory-1536962 https://www.newsweek.com/chinese-virologist-mon-arrested-chi...

dcow 5y ago

What? There was real evidence weeks after. And then the Chinese journalist trying to share it was detained. There was even a github repo linking together all the different leads. And you didn't listen because it wasn't socially acceptable to enter that realm of possibilities because it felt dirty.

newacct583 5y ago
> the Chinese journalist trying to share it was detained. There was even a github repo linking together all the different leads OK, no. That's not the evidence people are talking about, even now. That's the garbage that fed the conspiracy theory. Find me a reputable source who's flipped on the garbage. What you're finding is people changing their priors based on good evidence, not deciding to believe garbage.
- dcow 5y ago
  I don't claim to know all the details. Can you explain how a whistleblower being detained is “garbage evidence” or which of the events was garbage? I’d like to understand where you’re coming from.
  - justicezyx 5y ago
    Where is the report of this?
    - dcow 5y ago
      That’s the problem, almost all media that didn't immediately denounce the events was “canceled”. I can’t even find the original thread on HN about Chinese virologists whistleblowers (there have been multiple) being detained before things got political. Maybe someone else can. There is an almost fair report of the events surrounding specifically Dr Yan on CNN but you really have to read the whole piece because the attempt at an exploration of Yan’s claims that isn't obviously politically motivated is buried at the end. Summary: whistleblower tries to flee China, is detained in Hong Kong, Bannon and Guo money help her out. She hastily publishes her “research” (evidence) without any peer review because of the urgency. The entire left media sphere jumps on her because of the Bannon link. Her Twitter is banned and FB and other “fact check” orgs brand her claims as indisputably false solely on political grounds. One such fact check has since been revoked. She has just as much standing as anybody claiming natural origin of the virus but was de-platformed because she said the wrong thing which associated her with the wrong people. NOW: other people are actually doing the research themselves and it appears that the only real explanation for how the virus evolved the features it has is via a gain of function process that would only ever really be used if you were trying to develop a bioweapon. HN lefties are in denial and claim that we have “new evidence” when exactly zero facts have changed. Other people are just taking a more serious look at the data.. The media looks like fools. Twitter and FB yet again censored truth in pursuit of a narrative. It’s a huge mess. At this point the best thing to do might just be to follow Yan’s twitter account. Her motives check out: why would somebody make an otherwise career-ending move (if they’re wrong) by coming forward with claims that covid was lab leaked if you weren’t absolutely sure of yourself? Of course that doesn't make her right, by virtue, but history seems to be taking care of that.
      - justicezyx 5y ago
        Are you referring to Limeng Yan? [1] She was not a virologist. She is a Post-Doctoral Researcher Field in Medicine: """She earned a PhD in ophthalmology from Southern Medical University in Guangzhou,[2][3] and sources differ on whether beforehand she received an MD degree[2] or a master's degree in ophthalmology[3] from Xiangya Medical College of Central South University in China.[13] She was a postdoctoral fellow at the University of Hong Kong.[14] """ She was not detained anywhere. Think about it, if she was detained, Trump and the gang will make it known to everyone 24 * 7. Her mother probably was harassed by netizens, that's very likely. And see how sloppy the media report can be in [2], she was not a virologist, but was labeled so by NewsWeek. I used to read NewsWeek everyday in my university's library when I was studying for GRE and applying for US PhD program. The quality was better then. > She has just as much standing as anybody claiming natural origin of the virus but was de-platformed because she said the wrong thing which associated her with the wrong people. She has as much standing as any non-expert... That's all I can conclude from [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li-Meng_Yan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li-Meng_Yan [2] https://www.newsweek.com/chinese-virologist-mon-arrested-china-covid-lab-conspiracy-theory-1536962 https://www.newsweek.com/chinese-virologist-mon-arrested-chi...