3 ms·

Here’s the best explanation I’ve found: “How I learned to stop worrying and love the lab leak theory.” https://donaldgmcneiljr1954.medium.com/how-i-learned-to-s

Here’s the best explanation I’ve found: “How I learned to stop worrying and love the lab leak theory.” https://donaldgmcneiljr1954.medium.com/how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-lab-leak-theory-f4f88446b04d https://donaldgmcneiljr1954.medium.com/how-i-learned-to-stop... Edit: part of the issue is “what is a lab leak?” It’s not a bio weapon, or a failed vaccine. The respectable “lab leak theory” is that the virus was identified in the wild, brought into a lab, but safety procedures were not followed. So it’s not a “Chinese created virus” theory. It’s a “someone wasn’t following proper procedures” theory.

AdamJacobMuller 5y ago
I think a lot of the "anti-lab-leak" theory people were anti-lab-leak because they were really anti "china engineered a genetically targeted virus which only targets non-chinese in order to attack the rest of the world so the lizard people can take over". The idea of a lab leak causing a global pandemic which basically paralyzed the world for a year is conspiracy theory level crazy nightmare fuel. It doesn't mean it's not true. It doesn't mean it's on the same level as lizard-people.
- pyuser583 5y ago
  I mean accidents happen. The Chinese government has recently adopted a science policy that based quantity over quality. Think the genetically engineered babies. Illegally genetically engineering babies is about as far out there as it gets. But it happeneded.
  - justicezyx 5y ago
    > The Chinese government has recently adopted a science policy that based quantity over quality. I have no idea what is the reference here. Quantity and quality were emphasized constantly in any nation-wide policy making. I was growing up in China for 24 years, I never sensed any emphasis on quantity over quality. To give an recent example, China has created so-called "future technology institute" for cutting edge fundamental researches [0]. That's aiming the most advanced technology research. > Think the genetically engineered babies. Illegally genetically engineering babies is about as far out there as it gets. The scientist, Jiankui He, who claimed that he had created the first human genetically edited babies [1] was widely criticized in mainland China [2] (in Chinese, Baidu's copycat of Wikipedia). Mr. He was later sentenced to 3 years prison, and 3M RMB fine. His collaborators were sentenced to prison time as well [3]. Mr. He was a rogue scientist at best. Your statement are connecting a statement of China values quantity over quality and gene editing human baby, I don't see the connection here, even if the the first statement was true (which itself were not). [0] http://www.xinhuanet.com/politics/2021-05/26/c_1127495262.htm http://www.xinhuanet.com/politics/2021-05/26/c_1127495262.ht... [1] https://www.technologyreview.com/2019/04/18/239297/the-scientist-who-created-crispr-babies-is-on-times-most-influential-list-but/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2019/04/18/239297/the-scien... [2] https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E8%B4%BA%E5%BB%BA%E5%A5%8E/2971172#6 https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E8%B4%BA%E5%BB%BA%E5%A5%8E/297... [3] http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-12/30/c_138666754.htm http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-12/30/c_138666754.htm
0xy 5y ago
Firstly, they were doing gain-of-function research, ergo it's absolutely "Chinese created". Secondly, the lab in question was recklessly negligent. The videos of scientists holding bats with plastic gloves, stories that some scientists were bitten by bats and more. Reckless negligence slips into responsibility area for me. Like if someone gets behind the wheel with a 0.15 blood alcohol concentration, which is what the Chinese lab did after multiple safety scares from 2017-2020. Additionally, Dr Fauci personally approved funding to the negligent laboratory and then lied in Congress when questioned about gain-of-function research, covering up his personal involvement. There's criminal negligence here, it's not a chance mishap. Not to mention the cover up.
- sergiomattei 5y ago
  By "Chinese created", most people likely refer to the subtext of a bioweapon.
  - 0xy 5y ago
    That's your definition, it doesn't meet the definition of the words nor my definition. By performing gain-of-function research, this particular virus would not have existed by itself. Ergo, the Chinese lab created the virus. Making any modification to the virus' function means you are the subsequent creator of it. Nature has nothing to do with it once you've got it in a lab and start messing around with it. "Chinese created" does not mean "Chinese weaponised". There's no evidence nor suggestion that this was deliberate or even that the gain-of-function research was for nefarious purposes. To suggest otherwise is to strawman.
    - sergiomattei 5y ago
      I'm aware and I agree with you, I'm just saying that in the eyes of the general public that's the notion going around.

AdamJacobMuller 5y ago

I think a lot of the "anti-lab-leak" theory people were anti-lab-leak because they were really anti "china engineered a genetically targeted virus which only targets non-chinese in order to attack the rest of the world so the lizard people can take over". The idea of a lab leak causing a global pandemic which basically paralyzed the world for a year is conspiracy theory level crazy nightmare fuel. It doesn't mean it's not true. It doesn't mean it's on the same level as lizard-people.

pyuser583 5y ago
I mean accidents happen. The Chinese government has recently adopted a science policy that based quantity over quality. Think the genetically engineered babies. Illegally genetically engineering babies is about as far out there as it gets. But it happeneded.
- justicezyx 5y ago
  > The Chinese government has recently adopted a science policy that based quantity over quality. I have no idea what is the reference here. Quantity and quality were emphasized constantly in any nation-wide policy making. I was growing up in China for 24 years, I never sensed any emphasis on quantity over quality. To give an recent example, China has created so-called "future technology institute" for cutting edge fundamental researches [0]. That's aiming the most advanced technology research. > Think the genetically engineered babies. Illegally genetically engineering babies is about as far out there as it gets. The scientist, Jiankui He, who claimed that he had created the first human genetically edited babies [1] was widely criticized in mainland China [2] (in Chinese, Baidu's copycat of Wikipedia). Mr. He was later sentenced to 3 years prison, and 3M RMB fine. His collaborators were sentenced to prison time as well [3]. Mr. He was a rogue scientist at best. Your statement are connecting a statement of China values quantity over quality and gene editing human baby, I don't see the connection here, even if the the first statement was true (which itself were not). [0] http://www.xinhuanet.com/politics/2021-05/26/c_1127495262.htm http://www.xinhuanet.com/politics/2021-05/26/c_1127495262.ht... [1] https://www.technologyreview.com/2019/04/18/239297/the-scientist-who-created-crispr-babies-is-on-times-most-influential-list-but/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2019/04/18/239297/the-scien... [2] https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E8%B4%BA%E5%BB%BA%E5%A5%8E/2971172#6 https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E8%B4%BA%E5%BB%BA%E5%A5%8E/297... [3] http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-12/30/c_138666754.htm http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-12/30/c_138666754.htm

0xy 5y ago

Firstly, they were doing gain-of-function research, ergo it's absolutely "Chinese created". Secondly, the lab in question was recklessly negligent. The videos of scientists holding bats with plastic gloves, stories that some scientists were bitten by bats and more. Reckless negligence slips into responsibility area for me. Like if someone gets behind the wheel with a 0.15 blood alcohol concentration, which is what the Chinese lab did after multiple safety scares from 2017-2020. Additionally, Dr Fauci personally approved funding to the negligent laboratory and then lied in Congress when questioned about gain-of-function research, covering up his personal involvement. There's criminal negligence here, it's not a chance mishap. Not to mention the cover up.

sergiomattei 5y ago
By "Chinese created", most people likely refer to the subtext of a bioweapon.
- 0xy 5y ago
  That's your definition, it doesn't meet the definition of the words nor my definition. By performing gain-of-function research, this particular virus would not have existed by itself. Ergo, the Chinese lab created the virus. Making any modification to the virus' function means you are the subsequent creator of it. Nature has nothing to do with it once you've got it in a lab and start messing around with it. "Chinese created" does not mean "Chinese weaponised". There's no evidence nor suggestion that this was deliberate or even that the gain-of-function research was for nefarious purposes. To suggest otherwise is to strawman.
  - sergiomattei 5y ago
    I'm aware and I agree with you, I'm just saying that in the eyes of the general public that's the notion going around.