3 ms·

"The boy who cried wolf", comes to mind. If you spout a bunch of nonsense about Climate Change being a hoax, don't be too surprised when a lot of people start

"The boy who cried wolf", comes to mind. If you spout a bunch of nonsense about Climate Change being a hoax, don't be too surprised when a lot of people start ignoring or even deriding the things you say. Even if the wolf does eventually show up.

lawnchair_larry 5y ago
This is the opposite lesson you should be taking away from this.
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago
  Why? I think that politicians have a responsibility to not tell obvious lies. If they do, then I'm going to stop paying attention to the things they say, and I'll tell everyone else to do the same. If they eventually say something insightful, well, that's a shame, but they no longer have my attention.
  - iammisc 5y ago
    All politicians tell obvious lies. It's part of their career. Biden tells obvious lies. Trump told obvious lies. So did Obama. So did bush. Part of critical thinking is determining which statements are lies and which are not.
  - lawnchair_larry 5y ago
    Because it’s irrelevant and assumes that anyone participating in the discussion was listening to any politician of any kind to begin with. The problem isn’t with ignoring the politicians - something that is nearly always prudent - it’s assuming that we weren’t also completely ignoring Trump. This investigation was happening among scientists regardless of whatever Trump or Biden or Cotton or Paul or whoever else had to say. But the mainstream left treated them as though they must be dumb backwards thinking Q anon Trumpers who got this idea from him or Alex Jones or some conspiracy nut. The way that people following this were treated was bad enough, but the most worrisome part is the reputational attacks, largely coordinated by Peter Daszak of the EcoHealth alliance, that these scientists faced. It was a huge risk on their part to challenge someone of his standing in the community, and he was relentless in spreading the meme that these were fringe quacks deserving of nothing but derision for their “conspiracy theories”. In another massive media failure, they were happy to use him as their subject matter expert without bothering to disclose that he’s the one who ran the very same program. And to a lesser extent, Fauci as well. To be clear, no one suspects that Daszak and Fauci were anything but well-intentioned in their original pursuits when starting and funding this research program. But it’s obvious why anyone faced with the possibility that their decision may have been the reason that this all happened in the first place. And the implications - that their entire organization and much of their life’s work will be shut down immediately - may put even the most reasonable mind in an extremely difficult position. How would you react upon realizing that your program may very well have killed millions around the globe and destroyed economies? I’d imagine that must be quite a burden on the conscience for anyone who is not a completely sociopathic murderer.
    - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
      > This investigation was happening among scientists regardless of whatever Trump or Biden or Cotton or Paul or whoever else had to say. But the mainstream left treated them as though they must be dumb backwards thinking Q anon Trumpers who got this idea from him or Alex Jones or some conspiracy nut. Maybe I just wasn't following the discourse closely enough? My main memory of this story early-on was in a Vox.com podcast in late Spring of 2020. They went through all of the circulating conspiracy theories about the Coronavirus—that it was caused by 5G, that it was a ploy to embed microchips, etc—and ended on the possibility of a lab leak. I remember them saying something like "yeah, this is the one theory that could actually be true, and we should investigate further."
oh_sigh 5y ago
So this is the fault of the people who were probably right. And it is not the fault of the people who told them to be quiet and that they believed in conspiracy theories.
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago
  No, I’m not assigning blame per se. I’m saying that no one listened to a specific set of politicians who had previously cried wolf, and told everyone else not to listen either. And I still think that’s good advice. But if the information comes from someone I can actually trust, I’ll pay attention. That’s how trust works, in a world where it’s not possible for me to personally be an expert on everything and I have to take others at their word.
  - oh_sigh 5y ago
    I think the harmful thing is not that no one listened, it was that you were actively told to not listen by major media outlets, and that they were conspiracy theories, or racist.

lawnchair_larry 5y ago

This is the opposite lesson you should be taking away from this.

Wowfunhappy 5y ago
Why? I think that politicians have a responsibility to not tell obvious lies. If they do, then I'm going to stop paying attention to the things they say, and I'll tell everyone else to do the same. If they eventually say something insightful, well, that's a shame, but they no longer have my attention.
- iammisc 5y ago
  All politicians tell obvious lies. It's part of their career. Biden tells obvious lies. Trump told obvious lies. So did Obama. So did bush. Part of critical thinking is determining which statements are lies and which are not.
- lawnchair_larry 5y ago
  Because it’s irrelevant and assumes that anyone participating in the discussion was listening to any politician of any kind to begin with. The problem isn’t with ignoring the politicians - something that is nearly always prudent - it’s assuming that we weren’t also completely ignoring Trump. This investigation was happening among scientists regardless of whatever Trump or Biden or Cotton or Paul or whoever else had to say. But the mainstream left treated them as though they must be dumb backwards thinking Q anon Trumpers who got this idea from him or Alex Jones or some conspiracy nut. The way that people following this were treated was bad enough, but the most worrisome part is the reputational attacks, largely coordinated by Peter Daszak of the EcoHealth alliance, that these scientists faced. It was a huge risk on their part to challenge someone of his standing in the community, and he was relentless in spreading the meme that these were fringe quacks deserving of nothing but derision for their “conspiracy theories”. In another massive media failure, they were happy to use him as their subject matter expert without bothering to disclose that he’s the one who ran the very same program. And to a lesser extent, Fauci as well. To be clear, no one suspects that Daszak and Fauci were anything but well-intentioned in their original pursuits when starting and funding this research program. But it’s obvious why anyone faced with the possibility that their decision may have been the reason that this all happened in the first place. And the implications - that their entire organization and much of their life’s work will be shut down immediately - may put even the most reasonable mind in an extremely difficult position. How would you react upon realizing that your program may very well have killed millions around the globe and destroyed economies? I’d imagine that must be quite a burden on the conscience for anyone who is not a completely sociopathic murderer.
  - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
    > This investigation was happening among scientists regardless of whatever Trump or Biden or Cotton or Paul or whoever else had to say. But the mainstream left treated them as though they must be dumb backwards thinking Q anon Trumpers who got this idea from him or Alex Jones or some conspiracy nut. Maybe I just wasn't following the discourse closely enough? My main memory of this story early-on was in a Vox.com podcast in late Spring of 2020. They went through all of the circulating conspiracy theories about the Coronavirus—that it was caused by 5G, that it was a ploy to embed microchips, etc—and ended on the possibility of a lab leak. I remember them saying something like "yeah, this is the one theory that could actually be true, and we should investigate further."

oh_sigh 5y ago

So this is the fault of the people who were probably right. And it is not the fault of the people who told them to be quiet and that they believed in conspiracy theories.

Wowfunhappy 5y ago
No, I’m not assigning blame per se. I’m saying that no one listened to a specific set of politicians who had previously cried wolf, and told everyone else not to listen either. And I still think that’s good advice. But if the information comes from someone I can actually trust, I’ll pay attention. That’s how trust works, in a world where it’s not possible for me to personally be an expert on everything and I have to take others at their word.
- oh_sigh 5y ago
  I think the harmful thing is not that no one listened, it was that you were actively told to not listen by major media outlets, and that they were conspiracy theories, or racist.