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Amazing. In the Netherlands it is free. You get a midwife, hospital and medical staff when required. You get a box of goods for the first days of baby care. We

by spockz 5y ago

Amazing. In the Netherlands it is free. You get a midwife, hospital and medical staff when required. You get a box of goods for the first days of baby care. We get 4-6 weeks paid leave as a father and 16 as a mother. There is help in the house for about a week to take care of baby and mother and do checkups. The only thing you pay a symbolic amount of money for is some to borrow tools like bath chairs. Probably some pain meds require a contribution but you never pay the whole thing. Children up until 18 are insured on your own insurance policy without additional fees. It must be hell to live in a cold place as the US where everything costs tons of money out of pocket.

minusf 5y ago
> We get 4-6 weeks paid leave as a father this is technically true, but for context: it started in 2021. Before it was 2 paid days and 3 unpaid days _in total_. Also the last 5 weeks are 70% paid (at least for me)
brnt 5y ago
Parental leave in the Netherlands, both for women and man, is the lowest in the EU. By a wide margin. So, while we get some things right, leave and the conseqences that implies for the carreer of the mother is not something we can boast about.
- spockz 5y ago
  In 2018 we were indeed among the lowest but not the lowest: https://www.capital-ges.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/1.png https://www.capital-ges.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/1.png from https://www.capital-ges.com/maternity-paternity-and-parental-leave-in-europe/ https://www.capital-ges.com/maternity-paternity-and-parental... I am not sure the career consequences are better elsewhere. What makes you say that pregnancy/motherhood has less effect on careers in different countries?
  - brnt 5y ago
    That graph does not represent the actual situation, it might include just full-paid leave. In countries like Germany, France and in Scandinavia, you get a shared budget: e.g. in Germany as a couple you get 14 months of which one parent can take 12months max, at ~65% pay. That's a whole different ballgame than the Dutch 5 weeks, even if fully paid. I lost access, but I seem to recall this [1] article covers it quite thoroughly: low paternal leave is a likely explanation for the low (again, lowest in the EU) number of woman working fulltime. Then there's [2] and [3]. It seems obvious that once you enable the partner to take care, you enable the couple to make their own choices, whatever they may be. [1] https://www.ftm.nl/artikelen/kasboekje-vrouwen-financien https://www.ftm.nl/artikelen/kasboekje-vrouwen-financien [2] https://decorrespondent.nl/8071/vind-jij-ambitieuze-vrouwen-minder-aantrekkelijk-en-waarom/1224795775357-9fc5007f https://decorrespondent.nl/8071/vind-jij-ambitieuze-vrouwen-... [3] https://decorrespondent.nl/8071/vind-jij-ambitieuze-vrouwen-minder-aantrekkelijk-en-waarom/1224795775357-9fc5007f https://decorrespondent.nl/8071/vind-jij-ambitieuze-vrouwen-...
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 5y ago
  Lowest in the EU? The father has 1 week off in Italy, and this has been increased from 3 days in the last 2 years. Mother has up to 2 months I believe (I'm a father and was shocked by this. If you had a kid, you'll laugh at anyone presuming 1 week is enough)
setBoolean 5y ago
I really don't get that sentiment though, as a German citizen for example health care insurance is mandatory as in you pay a certain percentage of your salary each month towards health care insurance. So by any means it isn't the land of free healthcare some people made it to be. Also in the US there is the Charity Care Policy that applies when you make under a certain yearly salary.
- spockz 5y ago
  In essence if everyone pays it through their income it is free as it will effect the buying power of everyone. Also because everyone chips in the individual contribution is lower.
mpercy 5y ago
Most people have good health care plans through their employer that pays for most of this stuff. I paid a few hundred dollars to the hospital when my child was born and we were there for several days. There are just a lot of people who for one reason or another do not have those benefits. It’s a very multimodal experience here unfortunately.
- spockz 5y ago
  But if your employer is holding your insurance they can do all kinds of things. You are afraid to quit because you will lose insurance. I have also read here on HN someone from SF paying a $4000 fee per month and still having to pay for a large part of hospitalisation. So it appears to be not so rosy even for the well off.
- CogitoCogito 5y ago
  Given my experience with both the US and Swedish healthcare systems, I'm not sure I would rate even the absolute best healthcare plans as good. Growing up, my healthcare plan was about the best possible (both parents were doctors in the same hospital so we got a sort of deluxe super plan better than even the regular doctor families got with only one doctor parent), but I would still say it was about as good as Sweden's setup. I don't mean this as an attack on you, but I think Americans overestimate the quality of their healthcare. The US system really is pretty bad from top to bottom. There are of course people who have it _worse_ (e.g. those not insured at all), but I don't find any aspect of the system particularly impressive. And considering the fact that it's by far the most expensive per capita of any healthcare in the world, it really becomes totally inexcusable. American healthcare is a national disgrace.

by spockz 5y ago

minusf 5y ago

> We get 4-6 weeks paid leave as a father this is technically true, but for context: it started in 2021. Before it was 2 paid days and 3 unpaid days _in total_. Also the last 5 weeks are 70% paid (at least for me)

brnt 5y ago

Parental leave in the Netherlands, both for women and man, is the lowest in the EU. By a wide margin. So, while we get some things right, leave and the conseqences that implies for the carreer of the mother is not something we can boast about.

spockz 5y ago
In 2018 we were indeed among the lowest but not the lowest: https://www.capital-ges.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/1.png https://www.capital-ges.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/1.png from https://www.capital-ges.com/maternity-paternity-and-parental-leave-in-europe/ https://www.capital-ges.com/maternity-paternity-and-parental... I am not sure the career consequences are better elsewhere. What makes you say that pregnancy/motherhood has less effect on careers in different countries?
- brnt 5y ago
  That graph does not represent the actual situation, it might include just full-paid leave. In countries like Germany, France and in Scandinavia, you get a shared budget: e.g. in Germany as a couple you get 14 months of which one parent can take 12months max, at ~65% pay. That's a whole different ballgame than the Dutch 5 weeks, even if fully paid. I lost access, but I seem to recall this [1] article covers it quite thoroughly: low paternal leave is a likely explanation for the low (again, lowest in the EU) number of woman working fulltime. Then there's [2] and [3]. It seems obvious that once you enable the partner to take care, you enable the couple to make their own choices, whatever they may be. [1] https://www.ftm.nl/artikelen/kasboekje-vrouwen-financien https://www.ftm.nl/artikelen/kasboekje-vrouwen-financien [2] https://decorrespondent.nl/8071/vind-jij-ambitieuze-vrouwen-minder-aantrekkelijk-en-waarom/1224795775357-9fc5007f https://decorrespondent.nl/8071/vind-jij-ambitieuze-vrouwen-... [3] https://decorrespondent.nl/8071/vind-jij-ambitieuze-vrouwen-minder-aantrekkelijk-en-waarom/1224795775357-9fc5007f https://decorrespondent.nl/8071/vind-jij-ambitieuze-vrouwen-...
Fire-Dragon-DoL 5y ago
Lowest in the EU? The father has 1 week off in Italy, and this has been increased from 3 days in the last 2 years. Mother has up to 2 months I believe (I'm a father and was shocked by this. If you had a kid, you'll laugh at anyone presuming 1 week is enough)

setBoolean 5y ago

I really don't get that sentiment though, as a German citizen for example health care insurance is mandatory as in you pay a certain percentage of your salary each month towards health care insurance. So by any means it isn't the land of free healthcare some people made it to be. Also in the US there is the Charity Care Policy that applies when you make under a certain yearly salary.

spockz 5y ago
In essence if everyone pays it through their income it is free as it will effect the buying power of everyone. Also because everyone chips in the individual contribution is lower.

mpercy 5y ago

Most people have good health care plans through their employer that pays for most of this stuff. I paid a few hundred dollars to the hospital when my child was born and we were there for several days. There are just a lot of people who for one reason or another do not have those benefits. It’s a very multimodal experience here unfortunately.

spockz 5y ago
But if your employer is holding your insurance they can do all kinds of things. You are afraid to quit because you will lose insurance. I have also read here on HN someone from SF paying a $4000 fee per month and still having to pay for a large part of hospitalisation. So it appears to be not so rosy even for the well off.
CogitoCogito 5y ago
Given my experience with both the US and Swedish healthcare systems, I'm not sure I would rate even the absolute best healthcare plans as good. Growing up, my healthcare plan was about the best possible (both parents were doctors in the same hospital so we got a sort of deluxe super plan better than even the regular doctor families got with only one doctor parent), but I would still say it was about as good as Sweden's setup. I don't mean this as an attack on you, but I think Americans overestimate the quality of their healthcare. The US system really is pretty bad from top to bottom. There are of course people who have it _worse_ (e.g. those not insured at all), but I don't find any aspect of the system particularly impressive. And considering the fact that it's by far the most expensive per capita of any healthcare in the world, it really becomes totally inexcusable. American healthcare is a national disgrace.