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This attitude is fundamentally incompatible with American (really, all Western) civic values. It goes against what our entire system of law is built on.

lurquer 5y ago
Meh... not really. Our “entire system of law” exists precisely to channel and standardize vengeance and retribution. When the law breaks down, vigilantism (or, more commonly, protection rackets) will arise. I prefer law and order. But, let’s not lose sight of why we have “law and order.” Its not to handle criminals... it’s to dissuade ordinary folks from taking matters into their own hands.
OldGoodNewBad 5y ago
So does, for example, letting hundreds of Antifa arsonists and terrorists go without charges. And it's only going to get worse. Don't blame me for saying this, blame DAs who won't prosecute their own cousins, who know they are safe in their criminal activity. Western civilization has failed, by and large. It's up to the people in the wreckage to figure out something better. The judicial system has failed, and it's not going to improve from here on out.
krastanov 5y ago
> People demand justice, in other words punishment Not being able to distinguish justice and punishment sounds terrifying. To me this is as fundamental as "innocent until proven guilty". I am simply not interested in living in a society in which these two notions are confused for each other (and no, I am not privileged rich elite that gets to not be affected by crime).
- OldGoodNewBad 5y ago
  Don’t complain about vigilantism. Worry about a crooked justice system. Vigilantism is coming, there is no stopping it. Terrify yourself, or agitate for the proper punishment of criminals.
  - krastanov 5y ago
    This is a ridiculous defeatist attitude. What is the point of living in a hellscape like the one you seem to desire (celebrating vigilantism or desiring punishment)? A civilization that focuses on punishing criminals is just a sad place to be in. Crime falls when you work to prevent it and rehabilitate, not when you punish it after the fact. Look at all the countries that have learnt that lesson, that do not punish but rehabilitate and how they did not have a societal collapse or rise in vigilantism, rather they are some of the best places to live in. Sure, there are growing pains when you switch from a medieval attitude of punishment to something more civilized, but your scaremongering is in direct contradiction to the successes of civilizations that embrace rehabilitation and justice (which has nothing to do with punishment).
    - OldGoodNewBad 5y ago
      I’m not celebrating it. It is what it is, vigilantism is coming because we have activist prosecutors who won’t punish criminals. Just roll with it, enjoy the new normal.

lurquer 5y ago

Meh... not really. Our “entire system of law” exists precisely to channel and standardize vengeance and retribution. When the law breaks down, vigilantism (or, more commonly, protection rackets) will arise. I prefer law and order. But, let’s not lose sight of why we have “law and order.” Its not to handle criminals... it’s to dissuade ordinary folks from taking matters into their own hands.

OldGoodNewBad 5y ago

So does, for example, letting hundreds of Antifa arsonists and terrorists go without charges. And it's only going to get worse. Don't blame me for saying this, blame DAs who won't prosecute their own cousins, who know they are safe in their criminal activity. Western civilization has failed, by and large. It's up to the people in the wreckage to figure out something better. The judicial system has failed, and it's not going to improve from here on out.

krastanov 5y ago

> People demand justice, in other words punishment Not being able to distinguish justice and punishment sounds terrifying. To me this is as fundamental as "innocent until proven guilty". I am simply not interested in living in a society in which these two notions are confused for each other (and no, I am not privileged rich elite that gets to not be affected by crime).

OldGoodNewBad 5y ago
Don’t complain about vigilantism. Worry about a crooked justice system. Vigilantism is coming, there is no stopping it. Terrify yourself, or agitate for the proper punishment of criminals.
- krastanov 5y ago
  This is a ridiculous defeatist attitude. What is the point of living in a hellscape like the one you seem to desire (celebrating vigilantism or desiring punishment)? A civilization that focuses on punishing criminals is just a sad place to be in. Crime falls when you work to prevent it and rehabilitate, not when you punish it after the fact. Look at all the countries that have learnt that lesson, that do not punish but rehabilitate and how they did not have a societal collapse or rise in vigilantism, rather they are some of the best places to live in. Sure, there are growing pains when you switch from a medieval attitude of punishment to something more civilized, but your scaremongering is in direct contradiction to the successes of civilizations that embrace rehabilitation and justice (which has nothing to do with punishment).
  - OldGoodNewBad 5y ago
    I’m not celebrating it. It is what it is, vigilantism is coming because we have activist prosecutors who won’t punish criminals. Just roll with it, enjoy the new normal.