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American HN readers: Is everything alright? It seems a new kind of on-the-edge over there. Does it truly feel unsafe to the extent that people resort to violent

American HN readers: Is everything alright? It seems a new kind of on-the-edge over there. Does it truly feel unsafe to the extent that people resort to violent and intrusive systems like these?

wearywanderer 5y ago
The wealthy have always hired private security.
shadowgovt 5y ago
Everything is not alright, but increased crime rates are only a small part of that. Perception is, generally, very divorced from reality, and people don't have the fundamental skills to recognize that or cross-check their information.
banannaise 5y ago
It doesn't feel unsafe. Apps like this are just people with a violence fetish getting off, not that having a lot of those in your country is particularly pleasant either.
esturk 5y ago
Citizens are conditioned to believe that police will solve all the crimes from shows like True Crime, CSI, etc. And when said criminals are such masterminds that even the police can't catch, they are then conditioned by superhero movies from Marvel, Superman, Batman, etc. that someone should rise up to catch such criminals, this is the end state. See, every kid is taught and empowered growing up that they should stand up for what's right. And when the justice system is imperfect, everyone is trying to fix it in the best way they know how. Some are doing it politically, socially, physically, etc.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  All true, and there's an additional factor: these shows, and news coverage about crime, make people think crime is far more prevalent (and rising) than it is. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/16/voters-perceptions-of-crime-continue-to-conflict-with-reality/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/16/voters-perc... Local news Facebook comments are full of "there's so much crime! it was never like this when I was younger!" but the reality is completely in the opposite direction.
  - MomoXenosaga 5y ago
    It's better for people to worry if their daughter is going to get raped than for them to question the growing wealth disparity.
  - jasonwatkinspdx 5y ago
    I showed my boomer parents the actual data and they straight up rejected it. The "society is collapsing into lawlessness" narrative has become very strong.
    - midasuni 5y ago
      People reject data (lies, damn lies and statistics). They reject rationalism. They go with their gut, their gut is programmed by the headlines they see
    - jasonwatkinspdx 5y ago
      Lol at the downvotes. My parents are literally part of the baby boom. It's an accurate way to describe them, not a flippant insult.
    - 8note 5y ago
      Chances are, they're using "crime" and "lawlessness" for some group of people they think should be illegal. That the crime rate has gone down is meaningless when you think more things should be illegal.
fallingknife 5y ago
Yes everything is alright. People just don't know it. Why? Have you ever watched American news?
retrac 5y ago
In reality, Americans are generally more physically safe from violent crime and property crime than they have been for decades. Right now may well be the most peaceful time in American history. However, it seems most people believe crime, particularly violent crime, has been getting worse over the same period: https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/FT_16.11.16_crime_trend.png https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/FT_16... from this study: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/16/voters-perceptions-of-crime-continue-to-conflict-with-reality/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/16/voters-perc...
- sdflhasjd 5y ago
  2015 seems like a long time ago in this context. I feel like things have changed in the past 5 years
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
asveikau 5y ago
People on the internet are really sensationalist about crime. I think crime rates in some places may be slightly up, but still well below the highs of the 1990s. A different narrative is grabbing people's attention.
sameers 5y ago
It's well documented [fte] that news stories about crime rose in the nineties and beyond, as crime rates fell. Whether the dog wagged the tail or the other way round is hard to say - certainly during this period of crime decline, popular perception that crime is worse remained steadfast [gallup]. News channels may have been merely amplifying what they noticed their audience wanted to hear; or, they created an atmosphere of paranoia because (as now with the Citizen app), it boosts ratings. Crime is also relatively easy to report, and makes for riveting television. The victims are easy to identify, and interview. There is no complexity because what matters is only the aftermath, rather than what leads up to what ends up being criminal. Perhaps the arsonist in this case was just being exceedingly careless with a campfire BBQ; who cares, when it feels good to find someone to blame them and brand them as "evil"? The reason the US appears to be "on the edge," all the time, is that the media loves creating that narrative. If you saw broadcasts that said, "it's all sorta average here, folks, in fact some things are gradually getting better," why would you tune in the next day? References fte: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/many-americans-are-convinced-crime-is-rising-in-the-u-s-theyre-wrong/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/many-americans-are-conv... gallup: https://news.gallup.com/poll/150464/americans-believe-crime-worsening.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/150464/americans-believe-crime-...
germinalphrase 5y ago
There are a lot of people making money by causing people to be scared. It’s principally one of the strongest business cases for a media outlet. Crime is down significantly on a historical basis, but media consumption is through the roof.
ctdonath 5y ago
Things are so good here (really) that people are freaking out trying to create hobgoblins to fear. “Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world. ... But I believe that as a species, human beings define their reality through misery and suffering. The perfect world was a dream that your primitive cerebrum kept trying to wake up from.” - The Matrix

American HN readers: Is everything alright? It seems a new kind of on-the-edge over there. Does it truly feel unsafe to the extent that people resort to violent and intrusive systems like these?

wearywanderer 5y ago

The wealthy have always hired private security.

shadowgovt 5y ago

Everything is not alright, but increased crime rates are only a small part of that. Perception is, generally, very divorced from reality, and people don't have the fundamental skills to recognize that or cross-check their information.

banannaise 5y ago

It doesn't feel unsafe. Apps like this are just people with a violence fetish getting off, not that having a lot of those in your country is particularly pleasant either.

esturk 5y ago

Citizens are conditioned to believe that police will solve all the crimes from shows like True Crime, CSI, etc. And when said criminals are such masterminds that even the police can't catch, they are then conditioned by superhero movies from Marvel, Superman, Batman, etc. that someone should rise up to catch such criminals, this is the end state. See, every kid is taught and empowered growing up that they should stand up for what's right. And when the justice system is imperfect, everyone is trying to fix it in the best way they know how. Some are doing it politically, socially, physically, etc.

ceejayoz 5y ago
All true, and there's an additional factor: these shows, and news coverage about crime, make people think crime is far more prevalent (and rising) than it is. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/16/voters-perceptions-of-crime-continue-to-conflict-with-reality/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/16/voters-perc... Local news Facebook comments are full of "there's so much crime! it was never like this when I was younger!" but the reality is completely in the opposite direction.
- MomoXenosaga 5y ago
  It's better for people to worry if their daughter is going to get raped than for them to question the growing wealth disparity.
- jasonwatkinspdx 5y ago
  I showed my boomer parents the actual data and they straight up rejected it. The "society is collapsing into lawlessness" narrative has become very strong.
  - midasuni 5y ago
    People reject data (lies, damn lies and statistics). They reject rationalism. They go with their gut, their gut is programmed by the headlines they see
  - jasonwatkinspdx 5y ago
    Lol at the downvotes. My parents are literally part of the baby boom. It's an accurate way to describe them, not a flippant insult.
  - 8note 5y ago
    Chances are, they're using "crime" and "lawlessness" for some group of people they think should be illegal. That the crime rate has gone down is meaningless when you think more things should be illegal.

fallingknife 5y ago

Yes everything is alright. People just don't know it. Why? Have you ever watched American news?

retrac 5y ago

In reality, Americans are generally more physically safe from violent crime and property crime than they have been for decades. Right now may well be the most peaceful time in American history. However, it seems most people believe crime, particularly violent crime, has been getting worse over the same period: https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/FT_16.11.16_crime_trend.png https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/FT_16... from this study: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/16/voters-perceptions-of-crime-continue-to-conflict-with-reality/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/16/voters-perc...

sdflhasjd 5y ago
2015 seems like a long time ago in this context. I feel like things have changed in the past 5 years
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

asveikau 5y ago

People on the internet are really sensationalist about crime. I think crime rates in some places may be slightly up, but still well below the highs of the 1990s. A different narrative is grabbing people's attention.

sameers 5y ago

It's well documented [fte] that news stories about crime rose in the nineties and beyond, as crime rates fell. Whether the dog wagged the tail or the other way round is hard to say - certainly during this period of crime decline, popular perception that crime is worse remained steadfast [gallup]. News channels may have been merely amplifying what they noticed their audience wanted to hear; or, they created an atmosphere of paranoia because (as now with the Citizen app), it boosts ratings. Crime is also relatively easy to report, and makes for riveting television. The victims are easy to identify, and interview. There is no complexity because what matters is only the aftermath, rather than what leads up to what ends up being criminal. Perhaps the arsonist in this case was just being exceedingly careless with a campfire BBQ; who cares, when it feels good to find someone to blame them and brand them as "evil"? The reason the US appears to be "on the edge," all the time, is that the media loves creating that narrative. If you saw broadcasts that said, "it's all sorta average here, folks, in fact some things are gradually getting better," why would you tune in the next day? References fte: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/many-americans-are-convinced-crime-is-rising-in-the-u-s-theyre-wrong/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/many-americans-are-conv... gallup: https://news.gallup.com/poll/150464/americans-believe-crime-worsening.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/150464/americans-believe-crime-...

germinalphrase 5y ago

There are a lot of people making money by causing people to be scared. It’s principally one of the strongest business cases for a media outlet. Crime is down significantly on a historical basis, but media consumption is through the roof.

ctdonath 5y ago

Things are so good here (really) that people are freaking out trying to create hobgoblins to fear. “Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world. ... But I believe that as a species, human beings define their reality through misery and suffering. The perfect world was a dream that your primitive cerebrum kept trying to wake up from.” - The Matrix