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I mean more the "Why don't you ..." It's quite obvious that it's rethorical but it seems so nonsensical to put this into a question while camouflaging what is r

I mean more the "Why don't you ..." It's quite obvious that it's rethorical but it seems so nonsensical to put this into a question while camouflaging what is really going on.

adrianmonk 5y ago
I'd say the purpose is more or less to show respect. By phrasing it as an idea or a suggestion, you give them the chance to (appear to) cooperate willingly. Both people presumably do know what's really happening, and this is exactly why it's seen as unnecessary (and inconsiderate) to actually say it. There's no reason to call extra attention to something unpleasant.
dentemple 5y ago
The "camouflage" here indicates an increase in the speaker's politeness level. Some languages use explicit terms or forms of address to do this; English, however, utilizes indirect phrasing to achieve this effect.
HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
Don't feel bad :-) My 11 year-old son (a native English speaker) said the same thing to me just yesterday. "Hey, bud. Why don't you pick up those two plastic containers and follow me." "OK, but dad, it really confuses me when you say that. Can't you just say 'please pick up those containers'? It sounds like you're giving me an option but you're really not." Until he said that, I had never given it a thought. But he takes things very literally, so I can see how it's confusing even though he knows what I mean.
- kibbleble 5y ago
  Did your son really say "can't you just say?" :P I think English littered with these suggestive polite negation statements.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
    LOL. I didn't even notice that :-)
aynsof 5y ago
What an interesting question! As others have said, it's definitely a 'softening' of a request to make it more polite ('Go home' vs 'Would it be possible for you to go home?'). But I think there are some status games going on here, too. A subordinate would never use that phrasing with a superior. While the phrase uses conditional language to 'soften' the request, it's also an imperative (an order) that's made to look like a request. Try to imagine the boss saying this. How would they have said it - with an upward inflection at the end, as in a question like this one? Definitely not! The phrase would definitely end on a downward inflection, as in an order like 'Please go home'. It's a curious turn of phrase that I'd suggest is particular to managers, parents, and other authority figures that need to maintain a veneer of respect for their subordinates. It also strikes me as uniquely American; I couldn't imagine a Brit or an Australian saying something like this (but happy to be corrected).
- blablabla123 5y ago
  Thanks for the detailed answer! That makes it really understandable :)
schoen 5y ago
It occurs to me that Spanish can also have this, which I only know because of this incident: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C2%BFPor_qu%C3%A9_no_te_callas%3F https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C2%BFPor_qu%C3%A9_no_te_calla... (I don't know whether it has exactly the same set of connotations in Spanish as in English, but it doesn't seem like the king expected Chavez to do something other than comply.)

I mean more the "Why don't you ..." It's quite obvious that it's rethorical but it seems so nonsensical to put this into a question while camouflaging what is really going on.

adrianmonk 5y ago

I'd say the purpose is more or less to show respect. By phrasing it as an idea or a suggestion, you give them the chance to (appear to) cooperate willingly. Both people presumably do know what's really happening, and this is exactly why it's seen as unnecessary (and inconsiderate) to actually say it. There's no reason to call extra attention to something unpleasant.

dentemple 5y ago

The "camouflage" here indicates an increase in the speaker's politeness level. Some languages use explicit terms or forms of address to do this; English, however, utilizes indirect phrasing to achieve this effect.

HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago

Don't feel bad :-) My 11 year-old son (a native English speaker) said the same thing to me just yesterday. "Hey, bud. Why don't you pick up those two plastic containers and follow me." "OK, but dad, it really confuses me when you say that. Can't you just say 'please pick up those containers'? It sounds like you're giving me an option but you're really not." Until he said that, I had never given it a thought. But he takes things very literally, so I can see how it's confusing even though he knows what I mean.

kibbleble 5y ago
Did your son really say "can't you just say?" :P I think English littered with these suggestive polite negation statements.
- HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
  LOL. I didn't even notice that :-)

aynsof 5y ago

What an interesting question! As others have said, it's definitely a 'softening' of a request to make it more polite ('Go home' vs 'Would it be possible for you to go home?'). But I think there are some status games going on here, too. A subordinate would never use that phrasing with a superior. While the phrase uses conditional language to 'soften' the request, it's also an imperative (an order) that's made to look like a request. Try to imagine the boss saying this. How would they have said it - with an upward inflection at the end, as in a question like this one? Definitely not! The phrase would definitely end on a downward inflection, as in an order like 'Please go home'. It's a curious turn of phrase that I'd suggest is particular to managers, parents, and other authority figures that need to maintain a veneer of respect for their subordinates. It also strikes me as uniquely American; I couldn't imagine a Brit or an Australian saying something like this (but happy to be corrected).

blablabla123 5y ago
Thanks for the detailed answer! That makes it really understandable :)

schoen 5y ago

It occurs to me that Spanish can also have this, which I only know because of this incident: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C2%BFPor_qu%C3%A9_no_te_callas%3F https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C2%BFPor_qu%C3%A9_no_te_calla... (I don't know whether it has exactly the same set of connotations in Spanish as in English, but it doesn't seem like the king expected Chavez to do something other than comply.)