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I'm blown away that the Phoenicians (w/ Egyptians) circumnavigated Africa in 600BC and ... during 2000 years, it was assumed that it was a legend, until being p

I'm blown away that the Phoenicians (w/ Egyptians) circumnavigated Africa in 600BC and ... during 2000 years, it was assumed that it was a legend, until being proved otherwise only in 1488 - just a few years before America was (officially) discovered.

edgyquant 5y ago
I’m not convinced they did. Not only is this an account by a notorious “liar” (as herodotus is known) but the Egyptians were notoriously bad at sailing due to being spoiled by the Nile. When they travelled in the Red Sea they famously hugged the coast stopping at sundown and they hardly ever went far out on the Mediterranean.
- fpoling 5y ago
  The story alleged it were Phoenicians, not Egyptians, who sailed. And those were the best sailors at that time.
- WinstonSmith84 5y ago
  I do not have the knowledge to judge Herodotus (for his other stories), however even if he lied purposefully on that one, he is right about many things that practically none could have guessed with the current knowledge of his time. 1- the position of the sun when navigating in the southern hemisphere. 2- claiming a journey of 3 years It could be a coincidence of course. But then that would make from him a very smart and lucky liar - smart because he had to know the earth was round and lucky, because 3 years, it's what it would likely take to do it.
  - detritus 5y ago
    As for one, at least, if the Ancient Greeks and Egyptians knew the world was spherical (as they did, and had an approximate measure of its dimension), this could be easily predicted and might make part of whatever speculative discussion they had that was the equivalence of HN or general interested internerdery here. The second is harder to find an excuse for. (O/T) Of interest to me is something I learned from HN - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Bojador https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Bojador - a large rocky shoal off the North Western African coast that scuppered many attempts at sailing around that area. It was, somewhat naively, the first thing in my long life that made me really appreciate how challenging old sea faring would have been.
    - wsc981 5y ago
      There’s this guy, Randall Carlson, who claims the great pyramid of Cheops is a scaled version of the northern hemisphere. If true, I guess it would mean the Egyptians knew the earth was round. https://sacredgeometryinternational.com/the-great-pyramid-decoded-part-1/ https://sacredgeometryinternational.com/the-great-pyramid-de...
      - generalizations 5y ago
        That article is mostly just a hard to read description of latitude, longitude and meridians. Didn't actually see anywhere that the point was made.
        wsc981 5y ago
        It’s hard to read because it’s a video transcript of a Joe Rogan interview. In the actual interview his explanation becomes more clear imo.
      - Someone 5y ago
        _If_ they thought that was a scale model of half of earth, they must have thought the earth has the shape of an octahedron (possibly a slightly deformed one), not that of a sphere.
      - FredPret 5y ago
        “Sacred geometry”? Beware this type of thing. It’s an introduction to madness. Some of these pyramid folks claim that they were built as signposts for alien landing strips. And it gets more and more nuts from there.
    - kragen 5y ago
      Eratosthenes calculated the diameter of the Earth pretty well in 00240 BCE. Aristotle claimed it was round around 00350 BCE, and might have had a correct value, but uncertainty about units of measurement means his error could have been as large as a factor of 2, and the roundness of the earth was still a matter of debate at the time. Herodotus died around 00425 BCE and probably wrote closer to 00435 BCE. They were all "ancient Greeks" (and Eratosthenes lived in Egypt, so I guess he was an "ancient Egyptian" too) but that doesn't mean they were contemporary. Imagine someone in the year 04542 CE writing, "If the ancient Terrans knew about nuclear energy (as they did, and had unreliable and inefficient fission power plants and nuclear weapons), then Lincoln could have easily used atomic bombs in the US Civil War!" The timespan from Lincoln to Hiroshima was 80 years, from Herodotus to Aristotle about 100 years, and from Herodotus to Eratosthenes about 200 years. And those were very eventful centuries, much like our own.
- turndown 5y ago
  I'm not sure it's true either, but the fact that his account does correctly describe the position of the sun in the sky and the fact that Herodotus includes this information to discount the story to me tells of at least some kind of trip down to the southern portion of Africa. Total circumnavigation, though, I do doubt. Edit: Also, it wasn't Egyptians that did this but Phoenicians at the order of the Pharoah.
- guga42k 5y ago
  well, this trip sounds way more plausible than Troy/Iliad story. And Troy was discovered based on folk tales more or less. So who knows, may be Egyptians did it. ps: for Russian speaking crowd: there is a YA book https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Land_of_Foam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Land_of_Foam which is a fiction version of would-be such a trip.
  - Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
    Second this, it is the first thing that comes to mind whenever I hear about this voyage. Gives a very bright picture of the ancient world, and it is also a great story of love and friendship.
- finiteseries 5y ago
  The Egyptians weren’t sailing, Herodotus claims it was a fleet manned by Phoenician crew.
- clint 5y ago
  The article does not contend that "Egyptians Circumnavigated Africa" it says that Egyptians hired Phoenicians to engage in an Egyptian-funded circumnavigation of Africa"

edgyquant 5y ago

I’m not convinced they did. Not only is this an account by a notorious “liar” (as herodotus is known) but the Egyptians were notoriously bad at sailing due to being spoiled by the Nile. When they travelled in the Red Sea they famously hugged the coast stopping at sundown and they hardly ever went far out on the Mediterranean.

fpoling 5y ago
The story alleged it were Phoenicians, not Egyptians, who sailed. And those were the best sailors at that time.
WinstonSmith84 5y ago
I do not have the knowledge to judge Herodotus (for his other stories), however even if he lied purposefully on that one, he is right about many things that practically none could have guessed with the current knowledge of his time. 1- the position of the sun when navigating in the southern hemisphere. 2- claiming a journey of 3 years It could be a coincidence of course. But then that would make from him a very smart and lucky liar - smart because he had to know the earth was round and lucky, because 3 years, it's what it would likely take to do it.
- detritus 5y ago
  As for one, at least, if the Ancient Greeks and Egyptians knew the world was spherical (as they did, and had an approximate measure of its dimension), this could be easily predicted and might make part of whatever speculative discussion they had that was the equivalence of HN or general interested internerdery here. The second is harder to find an excuse for. (O/T) Of interest to me is something I learned from HN - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Bojador https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Bojador - a large rocky shoal off the North Western African coast that scuppered many attempts at sailing around that area. It was, somewhat naively, the first thing in my long life that made me really appreciate how challenging old sea faring would have been.
  - wsc981 5y ago
    There’s this guy, Randall Carlson, who claims the great pyramid of Cheops is a scaled version of the northern hemisphere. If true, I guess it would mean the Egyptians knew the earth was round. https://sacredgeometryinternational.com/the-great-pyramid-decoded-part-1/ https://sacredgeometryinternational.com/the-great-pyramid-de...
    - generalizations 5y ago
      That article is mostly just a hard to read description of latitude, longitude and meridians. Didn't actually see anywhere that the point was made.
      - wsc981 5y ago
        It’s hard to read because it’s a video transcript of a Joe Rogan interview. In the actual interview his explanation becomes more clear imo.
    - Someone 5y ago
      _If_ they thought that was a scale model of half of earth, they must have thought the earth has the shape of an octahedron (possibly a slightly deformed one), not that of a sphere.
    - FredPret 5y ago
      “Sacred geometry”? Beware this type of thing. It’s an introduction to madness. Some of these pyramid folks claim that they were built as signposts for alien landing strips. And it gets more and more nuts from there.
  - kragen 5y ago
    Eratosthenes calculated the diameter of the Earth pretty well in 00240 BCE. Aristotle claimed it was round around 00350 BCE, and might have had a correct value, but uncertainty about units of measurement means his error could have been as large as a factor of 2, and the roundness of the earth was still a matter of debate at the time. Herodotus died around 00425 BCE and probably wrote closer to 00435 BCE. They were all "ancient Greeks" (and Eratosthenes lived in Egypt, so I guess he was an "ancient Egyptian" too) but that doesn't mean they were contemporary. Imagine someone in the year 04542 CE writing, "If the ancient Terrans knew about nuclear energy (as they did, and had unreliable and inefficient fission power plants and nuclear weapons), then Lincoln could have easily used atomic bombs in the US Civil War!" The timespan from Lincoln to Hiroshima was 80 years, from Herodotus to Aristotle about 100 years, and from Herodotus to Eratosthenes about 200 years. And those were very eventful centuries, much like our own.
turndown 5y ago
I'm not sure it's true either, but the fact that his account does correctly describe the position of the sun in the sky and the fact that Herodotus includes this information to discount the story to me tells of at least some kind of trip down to the southern portion of Africa. Total circumnavigation, though, I do doubt. Edit: Also, it wasn't Egyptians that did this but Phoenicians at the order of the Pharoah.
guga42k 5y ago
well, this trip sounds way more plausible than Troy/Iliad story. And Troy was discovered based on folk tales more or less. So who knows, may be Egyptians did it. ps: for Russian speaking crowd: there is a YA book https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Land_of_Foam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Land_of_Foam which is a fiction version of would-be such a trip.
- Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
  Second this, it is the first thing that comes to mind whenever I hear about this voyage. Gives a very bright picture of the ancient world, and it is also a great story of love and friendship.
finiteseries 5y ago
The Egyptians weren’t sailing, Herodotus claims it was a fleet manned by Phoenician crew.
clint 5y ago
The article does not contend that "Egyptians Circumnavigated Africa" it says that Egyptians hired Phoenicians to engage in an Egyptian-funded circumnavigation of Africa"