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I'm a socialist, but I hate this meme on the left. We simply do not have time to build socialism before tackling climate change, especially with the recent crus

by notJim 5y ago

I'm a socialist, but I hate this meme on the left. We simply do not have time to build socialism before tackling climate change, especially with the recent crushing defeats the left has suffered in Western countries. We have to do this under capitalism, or we will not be able to do it at all.

throwaway09223 5y ago
Well, that and the fact that socialist states universally have worse outcome than capitalist states in this regard.
gmadsen 5y ago
That isnt the only alternative. A state run free market like china would actually be really useful for this global problem, if of course climate change was the priority for the government. lack of personal freedom and ease of abuse probably make this a terrible choice, but it would without a doubt be better for climate change than currently
- indymike 5y ago
  > A state run free market like china would actually be really useful for this global problem, if of course climate change was the priority for the government. The cure suggested here is worse than the disease.
  - gmadsen 5y ago
    so my second sentence? And I'm not entirely sure. Is authoritarian rule worse than billions starving to death, with collapse of the ecosystem? All the enlightenment ideas fall apart when we actually reach the limit of the earths resources, and can potentially cause our own extinction along with the rest of the animal kingdom
    - ethbr0 5y ago
      The balance is between (a) effectively addressing an issue & (b) empowering government and risking it abuse its power. Most long-lived democracies appear to have optimized to mitigate the risk of the second, over the long run, but at the cost of limiting the first. One thinks the Roman Republic had a pretty good thing going politically... but declaring a temporary dictator in times of crisis only worked until it didn't. Still, 475 years was a pretty good run.

by notJim 5y ago

throwaway09223 5y ago

Well, that and the fact that socialist states universally have worse outcome than capitalist states in this regard.

gmadsen 5y ago

That isnt the only alternative. A state run free market like china would actually be really useful for this global problem, if of course climate change was the priority for the government. lack of personal freedom and ease of abuse probably make this a terrible choice, but it would without a doubt be better for climate change than currently

indymike 5y ago
> A state run free market like china would actually be really useful for this global problem, if of course climate change was the priority for the government. The cure suggested here is worse than the disease.
- gmadsen 5y ago
  so my second sentence? And I'm not entirely sure. Is authoritarian rule worse than billions starving to death, with collapse of the ecosystem? All the enlightenment ideas fall apart when we actually reach the limit of the earths resources, and can potentially cause our own extinction along with the rest of the animal kingdom
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    The balance is between (a) effectively addressing an issue & (b) empowering government and risking it abuse its power. Most long-lived democracies appear to have optimized to mitigate the risk of the second, over the long run, but at the cost of limiting the first. One thinks the Roman Republic had a pretty good thing going politically... but declaring a temporary dictator in times of crisis only worked until it didn't. Still, 475 years was a pretty good run.