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I bet my developers in Novosibirsk, Siberia are looking forward to this. It seems like this issue is cared about mostly by people privileged with Mediterranean

I bet my developers in Novosibirsk, Siberia are looking forward to this. It seems like this issue is cared about mostly by people privileged with Mediterranean climates.

shkkmo 5y ago
Have you heard of this thing called "permafrost" and what it does to buildings and infrastructure on the surface when it melts?
vavooom 5y ago
Is there a service that helps identify property in northern climates (Canada/Russia/Alaska/etc.) that will be significantly more 'livable' in say 10-30 years time as the climate continues to warm? Would be a lucrative opportunity/ help young people plan for a more realistic future.
- dumbfoundded 5y ago
  There are lots of papers on it. One for example: https://grist.org/article/we-broke-down-what-climate-change-will-do-region-by-region/ https://grist.org/article/we-broke-down-what-climate-change-... Michigan looks pretty good but moving people and infrastructure will be unlikely. Cities will likely adapt and build it into their cost. Miami for example will be underwater but levies and sea walls can be constructed. I don't imagine Miami moving to upstate Michigan.
- ehnto 5y ago
  You could look at coastal change maps and buy property that will be coastal in 20 years.
haggy 5y ago
I don't know if I'm following. Are you saying you don't believe this change is a big deal for the climate?
gameswithgo 5y ago
That is not always the case. If they have industries that depend on the cold, they may not wish it warmer. If their livelihood depends on glaciers that retreat they may not wish it warmer. If they depend on animal life that would migrate or go extinct, they may not like it. If they are on the coast that will end up flooded, they may not like it. It is probably the case that there will be some people who "win" a bit as the planet warms, but on the whole I'm not sure anyone will be entirely better off for it in the long run.
heydenberk 5y ago
I know you're being snide, but a warming planet is a profound concern for billions of low-income people across south and southeast Asia, Africa, Central America and low-lying Pacific territories.
- NoblePublius 5y ago
  I am not being snide. I am being wary of politically motivated Westerners demanding massive societal and economic changes in the name of protecting “billions of low income people.” This is exact same reasoning that the British used to justify colonizing and exploiting some of those places.
eloff 5y ago
The temperature change is not the dangerous part of climate change for countries away from the equator. It's all the other changes that accompany that, which will affect Novosibirsk too directly or indirectly. Like loss of biodiversity, climate refugees, unstable political situation, etc. I do agree with you that Canada and Russia are likely to suffer the fewest negative effects. But I wouldn't say it would be a net positive for them either. It's not impossible, but there are a lot of unknowns at this point and a lot of potential feedback loops that could be devastating, like mass extinction level devastating.
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
The IPCC has an executive summary of the possible impact of a 1.5C temperature rise: https://www.ipcc.ch/sr15/ https://www.ipcc.ch/sr15/ This goes far beyond how comfortable the weather is when you step outside.
david-gpu 5y ago
The people who will be hit the hardest are, unsurprisingly, the world's poorest. Particularly people in rural areas of Africa and India who can't afford having a bad growing season.
rini17 5y ago
Ask them about thawing permafrost. It is so unstable that it won't be possible to build any infrastructure on it till it completely settles.
- NoblePublius 5y ago
  The prevailing sentiment in Russia about permafrost is that they can’t wait for it to thaw because it’s probably covering a lot of valuable resources. Breaking up arctic ice makes Russian shipping more valuable and Russia more strategically located globally. It’s hilarious to me how naively Western views on this issue are. Go talk to some Russians, maybe.
  - rini17 5y ago
    As I'm from Central/Eastern Europe, I do talk to them sometimes. Yes they are proud atomic superpower. And when westerners have doubts seeing the dwindling population, unimaginable corruption everywhere and lagging civilian technology - that's just naivete, right? I should have specified you to ask someone who actually knows something about building on permafrost, sorry for the omission.
lmilcin 5y ago
I think you misunderstand. 1.5C does not mean temperature everywhere is just going to rise by 1.5C. This means altering of global and local weather patterns with unpredictable consequences. Some places will get much colder, some will get much hotter. Some places will dry out. Some places will see more tornadoes and flooding. And some will get both hotter and more humid causing them to be absolutely uninhabitable, because of combination of 100% humidity and over 35 degrees C is basically lethal. So if you think this is just a "thing", and "what's the fuss, you are going to have more sunshine", you obviously don't understand what the problem is.
- NoblePublius 5y ago
  Your interpretation of these claims is politically fashionable but far from certain. Climates change by definition and how those changes will affect anything on a macro scale remains beyond us. The medieval warming period wasn’t anthropogenic and affected climate globally in myriad ways. This issue smacks of the privilege of Westerners. Check it.
cjblomqvist 5y ago
It's not evenly distributed, neither geographically or throughout the year. Some places will even get colder. Places like Siberia might get colder winners but warmer summers. Generally one can expect more extreme weather.

I bet my developers in Novosibirsk, Siberia are looking forward to this. It seems like this issue is cared about mostly by people privileged with Mediterranean climates.

shkkmo 5y ago

Have you heard of this thing called "permafrost" and what it does to buildings and infrastructure on the surface when it melts?

vavooom 5y ago

Is there a service that helps identify property in northern climates (Canada/Russia/Alaska/etc.) that will be significantly more 'livable' in say 10-30 years time as the climate continues to warm? Would be a lucrative opportunity/ help young people plan for a more realistic future.

dumbfoundded 5y ago
There are lots of papers on it. One for example: https://grist.org/article/we-broke-down-what-climate-change-will-do-region-by-region/ https://grist.org/article/we-broke-down-what-climate-change-... Michigan looks pretty good but moving people and infrastructure will be unlikely. Cities will likely adapt and build it into their cost. Miami for example will be underwater but levies and sea walls can be constructed. I don't imagine Miami moving to upstate Michigan.
ehnto 5y ago
You could look at coastal change maps and buy property that will be coastal in 20 years.

haggy 5y ago

I don't know if I'm following. Are you saying you don't believe this change is a big deal for the climate?

gameswithgo 5y ago

That is not always the case. If they have industries that depend on the cold, they may not wish it warmer. If their livelihood depends on glaciers that retreat they may not wish it warmer. If they depend on animal life that would migrate or go extinct, they may not like it. If they are on the coast that will end up flooded, they may not like it. It is probably the case that there will be some people who "win" a bit as the planet warms, but on the whole I'm not sure anyone will be entirely better off for it in the long run.

heydenberk 5y ago

I know you're being snide, but a warming planet is a profound concern for billions of low-income people across south and southeast Asia, Africa, Central America and low-lying Pacific territories.

NoblePublius 5y ago
I am not being snide. I am being wary of politically motivated Westerners demanding massive societal and economic changes in the name of protecting “billions of low income people.” This is exact same reasoning that the British used to justify colonizing and exploiting some of those places.

eloff 5y ago

The temperature change is not the dangerous part of climate change for countries away from the equator. It's all the other changes that accompany that, which will affect Novosibirsk too directly or indirectly. Like loss of biodiversity, climate refugees, unstable political situation, etc. I do agree with you that Canada and Russia are likely to suffer the fewest negative effects. But I wouldn't say it would be a net positive for them either. It's not impossible, but there are a lot of unknowns at this point and a lot of potential feedback loops that could be devastating, like mass extinction level devastating.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

The IPCC has an executive summary of the possible impact of a 1.5C temperature rise: https://www.ipcc.ch/sr15/ https://www.ipcc.ch/sr15/ This goes far beyond how comfortable the weather is when you step outside.

david-gpu 5y ago

The people who will be hit the hardest are, unsurprisingly, the world's poorest. Particularly people in rural areas of Africa and India who can't afford having a bad growing season.

rini17 5y ago

Ask them about thawing permafrost. It is so unstable that it won't be possible to build any infrastructure on it till it completely settles.

NoblePublius 5y ago
The prevailing sentiment in Russia about permafrost is that they can’t wait for it to thaw because it’s probably covering a lot of valuable resources. Breaking up arctic ice makes Russian shipping more valuable and Russia more strategically located globally. It’s hilarious to me how naively Western views on this issue are. Go talk to some Russians, maybe.
- rini17 5y ago
  As I'm from Central/Eastern Europe, I do talk to them sometimes. Yes they are proud atomic superpower. And when westerners have doubts seeing the dwindling population, unimaginable corruption everywhere and lagging civilian technology - that's just naivete, right? I should have specified you to ask someone who actually knows something about building on permafrost, sorry for the omission.

lmilcin 5y ago

I think you misunderstand. 1.5C does not mean temperature everywhere is just going to rise by 1.5C. This means altering of global and local weather patterns with unpredictable consequences. Some places will get much colder, some will get much hotter. Some places will dry out. Some places will see more tornadoes and flooding. And some will get both hotter and more humid causing them to be absolutely uninhabitable, because of combination of 100% humidity and over 35 degrees C is basically lethal. So if you think this is just a "thing", and "what's the fuss, you are going to have more sunshine", you obviously don't understand what the problem is.

NoblePublius 5y ago
Your interpretation of these claims is politically fashionable but far from certain. Climates change by definition and how those changes will affect anything on a macro scale remains beyond us. The medieval warming period wasn’t anthropogenic and affected climate globally in myriad ways. This issue smacks of the privilege of Westerners. Check it.

cjblomqvist 5y ago

It's not evenly distributed, neither geographically or throughout the year. Some places will even get colder. Places like Siberia might get colder winners but warmer summers. Generally one can expect more extreme weather.