4 ms·

>Why is online piracy such a big business (and hence a problem to the rights holders)? Because there are no comparable legal alternatives. I want to agree with

by blhack 15y ago

>Why is online piracy such a big business (and hence a problem to the rights holders)? Because there are no comparable legal alternatives. I want to agree with you, because I wish that was the case, but it isn't. The 15-25 set just doesn't care. If they can get a movie for free on bittorrent, or pay $20/mo to stream as many as they want, they'll go for bittorrent the majority of the time.

Blarat 15y ago
Do you have anything to back up that claim? My sister is in that range and she and most of her friends pay for content when they can, or so she tells me.
Unseelie 15y ago
I'm going to assume you're not in the 15-25 set, by even claiming there's wide commonality between people 15 and 25 years old. 18-25, perhaps. The first major difference is that people approaching 25 have a great deal more money than people at 15. All that aside, I for one notice a huge predilection in my peers (of the 19-22 set)to buy into services such as hulu and netxflix, and to look there first for their media. Why? Because the services are instant, cheap, and of much better than most pirated media. FYI, netflix charges $8 a month...significantly less than the 20 you site.
- novumordo 15y ago
  Services such as Netflix and Hulu are not available in most countries, and if they are, selection is terrible.
  - nkassis 15y ago
    Yeah that's the issue in Canada which has Netflix but the selection is so attrocious it's not even funny. All this because for Netflix it's a pain in the ass to have to negotiate for the same content in all the jurisdictions and that media conglomerates don't trust canadians due to our perceived soft copyright laws. Give me a brake. I saw a report the other day on lower CD sales for local Quebec music. The whole time they were calling for the end of the world, then at the end of the show they mention that online sales are up. Nothing explaining why CDs are better for artist than online sales through iTunes and others. Nothing that says if the majority of loss sales are now digital purchases or if the total amount of buying is down. Instead it's the same bullshit stuff. CDs are down and we are making less money from CD sales. We need taxes on MP3 players that go (I don't get how exactly) to the artists etc... Sorry that was unrelated as a rant but this is just how annoyed I am with the situation.
    - novumordo 15y ago
      >Yeah that's the issue in Canada which has Netflix but the selection is so attrocious it's not even funny. All this because for Netflix it's a pain in the ass to have to negotiate for the same content in all the jurisdictions and that media conglomerates don't trust canadians due to our perceived soft copyright laws. Consider that Rogers and Bell don't want to make it easy for anyone to steal their market share. I don't have cable, but I'd pay for Hulu, if it were available here. Look at the recent Internet Metering attempt by Rogers and Bell to stifle innovation in the way Canadians get TV and Movies.
      - noarchy 15y ago
        You can pay for a VPN and get Hulu (and Pandora, and whatever else you're not "allowed" to use) in Canada. It's crazy that this is the kind of thing we have to do in order to circumvent the silly IP/location restrictions that exist today.
    - gcb 15y ago
      netflix US is also crappy. What makes you think it's better? Proof: Take a look at their top 100. only 2 you can stream in the US, all the 98 others are via DVD only.
- blhack 15y ago
  I'm 24, and yes, there is a wide commonality in this group of people. 15 is usually around the age that kids start getting proficient enough with their computer that they can figure out how to bootleg movies. 25 is about the time that they mature out of it. >The first major difference is that people approaching 25 have a great deal more money than people at 15. Do they? Most of the people that I know around that age (I'm that age) have very little disposable income. While netflix (which doesn't have even remotely close to the same amount of titles as TPB) is only $8/mo, that $8/mo is a 12 pack of PBR. >All that aside, I for one notice a huge predilection in my peers (of the 19-22 set)to buy into services such as hulu and netxflix, and to look there first for their media. Are your peers mostly wealthy (relatively) computer programmers? >significantly less than the 20 you [c]ite Netflix and TPB aren't competitors. Do you think that major movie studios would offer all of their titles for $8/mo? There is already several massive experiments (netflix, hulu) taking place to test this, and the result is: no, they wouldn't.
  - Unseelie 15y ago
    I can't argue on any point except your money point, given my own experiences. (except for the fact that as netflix and TPB are sources for simmilar goods, then yes, they are competitors) My peers are generally not computer programmers, no, nor do they have much disposable income. They do live in the the united states, which means realtive certian other populations, they are insanely wealthy. We scrape by in the lower end of cost of living in this nation with large student debts, and housing costs in the range of $400 a month...from that, it isn't hard to split a netflix bill two or three ways. It costs, effectively, spare change to buy a netflix account between three people. Seriously on the margin of 80% of the people I know have a netflix account, with far fewer understanding the mechanics of bootlegging movies. We have netflix before we have a tv subscription.
  - slowpoke 15y ago
    >15 is usually around the age that kids start getting proficient enough with their computer that they can figure out how to bootleg movies. 25 is about the time that they mature out of it. Asserting that pirating is a question of maturity first and foremost is a very daring thing to do, to say the least.
trafficlight 15y ago
I think it comes down to whatever is easiest. If $20/month gets me the shows I want when I want, I'll do that. If it doesn't? Bittorrent it is.
esrauch 15y ago
Way more 15-25 year olds pay for content than you would think, just less so in the 15-25 techie crowd.
sandGorgon 15y ago
Steam. FTFY.
- romaniv 15y ago
  Also, GOG. It doesn't even use DRM.
yellowbkpk 15y ago
I have to disagree with you quite a bit... the 15-25's care immensely about this. They might not express it the same we do, but media consumption (and in some cases production) is their entire life. They want to consume as quickly and easily as possible. BitTorrent and other "black market" sources are currently the easiest and fastest ways to consume their media. My sister also (like my sibling comment) tried Netflix, Hulu, and the other streaming media systems. Netflix doesn't have the content they care about, Hulu was great until they were flooded with commercials. The first media business that figures out how to sell to this generation will get adoption quickly. This isn't a new story. They've been trying (and getting close: look at the SNL digital shorts and marketing campaigns like the Old Spice Guy) but so far haven't quite won over BitTorrent et al. yet. The longer they wait, the closer their product gets to the $0.99 song from iTunes in that the average consumer won't be willing to pay much more than $1 for it.
- GHFigs 15y ago
  The first media business that figures out how to sell to this generation will get adoption quickly. It's too soon to tell, but the model Apple has taken with iTunes Match seems promising. Basically, instead of selling access to the media (which they already do), they're selling a cloud service that's useful even if you already have the media. And they manage to not compete with themselves because the service is free if you buy the media from them. So free that it's not even a service, it's just the way their store works now. The usage patterns of TV and movies are different than music, but they aren't so different that something like that couldn't work.
mahyarm 15y ago
I think it's more the have a full time professional income set vs not. I used bittorrent a lot as a student, but nowadays half the time I don't bother and pay for it anyways where in the past I would spend the time to search for it.
DasIch 15y ago
It's not that they don't care they just can't afford it. If you restrict yourself to legal stuff you have to consider the price and you may have to decide. If you can get everything for free you take everything. This is very obvious with music. Everybody I know has a music collection far bigger than what they could reasonably afford.
brettnak 15y ago
I'm 24. I have only one friend who will pirate movies and tv if they are also available via a convenient legal means.
cmars232 15y ago
False dichotomy. You can't "pay $20/mo to stream as many as you want". The available selection from services like Netflix and Hulu is extremely limited. Many in the "15-25 set" pay about $20/mo to download through an offshore VPS, private trackers and servers. This money would go to the content holders if they didn't cripple their "precious content" with bundling packages, intrusive advertisements, DRM and region restrictions.

by blhack 15y ago

Blarat 15y ago

Do you have anything to back up that claim? My sister is in that range and she and most of her friends pay for content when they can, or so she tells me.

Unseelie 15y ago

I'm going to assume you're not in the 15-25 set, by even claiming there's wide commonality between people 15 and 25 years old. 18-25, perhaps. The first major difference is that people approaching 25 have a great deal more money than people at 15. All that aside, I for one notice a huge predilection in my peers (of the 19-22 set)to buy into services such as hulu and netxflix, and to look there first for their media. Why? Because the services are instant, cheap, and of much better than most pirated media. FYI, netflix charges $8 a month...significantly less than the 20 you site.

novumordo 15y ago
Services such as Netflix and Hulu are not available in most countries, and if they are, selection is terrible.
- nkassis 15y ago
  Yeah that's the issue in Canada which has Netflix but the selection is so attrocious it's not even funny. All this because for Netflix it's a pain in the ass to have to negotiate for the same content in all the jurisdictions and that media conglomerates don't trust canadians due to our perceived soft copyright laws. Give me a brake. I saw a report the other day on lower CD sales for local Quebec music. The whole time they were calling for the end of the world, then at the end of the show they mention that online sales are up. Nothing explaining why CDs are better for artist than online sales through iTunes and others. Nothing that says if the majority of loss sales are now digital purchases or if the total amount of buying is down. Instead it's the same bullshit stuff. CDs are down and we are making less money from CD sales. We need taxes on MP3 players that go (I don't get how exactly) to the artists etc... Sorry that was unrelated as a rant but this is just how annoyed I am with the situation.
  - novumordo 15y ago
    >Yeah that's the issue in Canada which has Netflix but the selection is so attrocious it's not even funny. All this because for Netflix it's a pain in the ass to have to negotiate for the same content in all the jurisdictions and that media conglomerates don't trust canadians due to our perceived soft copyright laws. Consider that Rogers and Bell don't want to make it easy for anyone to steal their market share. I don't have cable, but I'd pay for Hulu, if it were available here. Look at the recent Internet Metering attempt by Rogers and Bell to stifle innovation in the way Canadians get TV and Movies.
    - noarchy 15y ago
      You can pay for a VPN and get Hulu (and Pandora, and whatever else you're not "allowed" to use) in Canada. It's crazy that this is the kind of thing we have to do in order to circumvent the silly IP/location restrictions that exist today.
  - gcb 15y ago
    netflix US is also crappy. What makes you think it's better? Proof: Take a look at their top 100. only 2 you can stream in the US, all the 98 others are via DVD only.
blhack 15y ago
I'm 24, and yes, there is a wide commonality in this group of people. 15 is usually around the age that kids start getting proficient enough with their computer that they can figure out how to bootleg movies. 25 is about the time that they mature out of it. >The first major difference is that people approaching 25 have a great deal more money than people at 15. Do they? Most of the people that I know around that age (I'm that age) have very little disposable income. While netflix (which doesn't have even remotely close to the same amount of titles as TPB) is only $8/mo, that $8/mo is a 12 pack of PBR. >All that aside, I for one notice a huge predilection in my peers (of the 19-22 set)to buy into services such as hulu and netxflix, and to look there first for their media. Are your peers mostly wealthy (relatively) computer programmers? >significantly less than the 20 you [c]ite Netflix and TPB aren't competitors. Do you think that major movie studios would offer all of their titles for $8/mo? There is already several massive experiments (netflix, hulu) taking place to test this, and the result is: no, they wouldn't.
- Unseelie 15y ago
  I can't argue on any point except your money point, given my own experiences. (except for the fact that as netflix and TPB are sources for simmilar goods, then yes, they are competitors) My peers are generally not computer programmers, no, nor do they have much disposable income. They do live in the the united states, which means realtive certian other populations, they are insanely wealthy. We scrape by in the lower end of cost of living in this nation with large student debts, and housing costs in the range of $400 a month...from that, it isn't hard to split a netflix bill two or three ways. It costs, effectively, spare change to buy a netflix account between three people. Seriously on the margin of 80% of the people I know have a netflix account, with far fewer understanding the mechanics of bootlegging movies. We have netflix before we have a tv subscription.
- slowpoke 15y ago
  >15 is usually around the age that kids start getting proficient enough with their computer that they can figure out how to bootleg movies. 25 is about the time that they mature out of it. Asserting that pirating is a question of maturity first and foremost is a very daring thing to do, to say the least.

trafficlight 15y ago

I think it comes down to whatever is easiest. If $20/month gets me the shows I want when I want, I'll do that. If it doesn't? Bittorrent it is.

esrauch 15y ago

Way more 15-25 year olds pay for content than you would think, just less so in the 15-25 techie crowd.

sandGorgon 15y ago

Steam. FTFY.

romaniv 15y ago
Also, GOG. It doesn't even use DRM.

yellowbkpk 15y ago

I have to disagree with you quite a bit... the 15-25's care immensely about this. They might not express it the same we do, but media consumption (and in some cases production) is their entire life. They want to consume as quickly and easily as possible. BitTorrent and other "black market" sources are currently the easiest and fastest ways to consume their media. My sister also (like my sibling comment) tried Netflix, Hulu, and the other streaming media systems. Netflix doesn't have the content they care about, Hulu was great until they were flooded with commercials. The first media business that figures out how to sell to this generation will get adoption quickly. This isn't a new story. They've been trying (and getting close: look at the SNL digital shorts and marketing campaigns like the Old Spice Guy) but so far haven't quite won over BitTorrent et al. yet. The longer they wait, the closer their product gets to the $0.99 song from iTunes in that the average consumer won't be willing to pay much more than $1 for it.

GHFigs 15y ago
The first media business that figures out how to sell to this generation will get adoption quickly. It's too soon to tell, but the model Apple has taken with iTunes Match seems promising. Basically, instead of selling access to the media (which they already do), they're selling a cloud service that's useful even if you already have the media. And they manage to not compete with themselves because the service is free if you buy the media from them. So free that it's not even a service, it's just the way their store works now. The usage patterns of TV and movies are different than music, but they aren't so different that something like that couldn't work.

mahyarm 15y ago

I think it's more the have a full time professional income set vs not. I used bittorrent a lot as a student, but nowadays half the time I don't bother and pay for it anyways where in the past I would spend the time to search for it.

DasIch 15y ago

It's not that they don't care they just can't afford it. If you restrict yourself to legal stuff you have to consider the price and you may have to decide. If you can get everything for free you take everything. This is very obvious with music. Everybody I know has a music collection far bigger than what they could reasonably afford.

brettnak 15y ago

I'm 24. I have only one friend who will pirate movies and tv if they are also available via a convenient legal means.

cmars232 15y ago

False dichotomy. You can't "pay $20/mo to stream as many as you want". The available selection from services like Netflix and Hulu is extremely limited. Many in the "15-25 set" pay about $20/mo to download through an offshore VPS, private trackers and servers. This money would go to the content holders if they didn't cripple their "precious content" with bundling packages, intrusive advertisements, DRM and region restrictions.