4 ms·

Let's hope not. They're deliberately trying to get people to take on debt rather than just do card payments, and even simple things like buying a book through a

Let's hope not. They're deliberately trying to get people to take on debt rather than just do card payments, and even simple things like buying a book through a web site requires declining several offers for paying with credit. Unfortunately, they're huge, and I doubt the Swedish authorities will do more than give them a fine and a slap on the wrist.

prestigious 5y ago
Card payments are usually debt also?
- fogihujy 5y ago
  Debit cards is more common in quite a few places. My impression has always been that paying everything with a credit card is a U.S. thing. Here in Finland, It's not uncommon to have no debt apart from the mortage on one's home.
  - hervature 5y ago
    Mortgages are 70% of debt in the US. It is like saying I got perfect on a test except for the 70% I got wrong.
    - xmodem 5y ago
      Not really. Mortgages are secured against the property, and attract low interest rates compared to unsecured debt like a credit card.
    - scbrg 5y ago
      That's interesting. Mortgages are 100% of my debt, and the debt of most everyone I know. Which I guess was the point GP tried to make.
  - oriolid 5y ago
    Finland doesn't have credit score system, so there's no reason to not pay not pay the credit card bill immediately. There is certain push towards credit cards, though. As far as I remember my bank would charge a yearly fee for debit card, but credit card is free for me.
  - philsnow 5y ago
    For what it's worth, I have paid for nearly everything I possibly could with credit cards for decades, and I haven't paid a cent in credit card finance charges in at least 15 years (since my fiancee straightened me out and helped me see that I was being dumb about debt). I have them set to auto-pay the entire balance every pay period. I use them because consumer protections with other methods aren't as good here in the States. Paying with a credit card, if I have an issue with a vendor, after a good faith effort on my part to resolve the issue, I can just ask the credit card company to deal with it. (I don't abuse this, but I don't doubt there are people who do.) There are better and worse credit card companies for this. American Express has great customer service but they aren't accepted in as many places.
- null_object 5y ago
  > Card payments are usually debt also? Debit card payments are not debt - they're effectively the same as a direct transfer from the user's bank account. I'm very conflicted about Klarna - on the one hand they do present an easy and (usually) safe way to handle transactions with small retailers to whom I don't necessarily want to share my payment details. But on the other hand, they use a variety of dark patterns to try to get you to pay: 1. on credit 2. by signing-up for their credit-card One unfortunate part of their earlier history, was that when you promised to pay with Klarna on a website, and was told you'd receive the invoice, there was a (perceived?) tendency for that invoice to never be sent due to an 'oversight'. When this happens in Sweden, the buyer gets a reminder a few days after the due-date, with a pretty large extra amount to pay. There were quite a few stories about this in the press at various times [0], and I know quite a few people from Klarna and would tease them about it - which they always strenuously denied - but then it happened to me. In any case, finding out how this happened is going to be interesting. [0] in Swedish: https://www.svd.se/mangder-av-klagomal-mot-klarnas-fakturor https://www.svd.se/mangder-av-klagomal-mot-klarnas-fakturor DeepL translation: "Lots of complaints against Klarna invoices. Klarna, the high-profile IT company, is being criticised by a host of customers. Many say they receive invoices with reminder fees and collection demands directly, without having been reached by an original invoice. The Swedish Consumer Agency is critical of Klarna's invoicing methods for several reasons and is currently investigating whether the company is behaving legally." Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator
feu 5y ago
>They're deliberately trying to get people to take on debt rather than just do card payments So what? It's 0% interest. It's incredibly helpful to have easy-access financing to split purchases across a few months. >even simple things like buying a book through a web site requires declining several offers for paying with credit. This sounds so specific it seems like you're taking a bad experience with one website and pretending all websites are like this. Most e-commerce sites I've used in the past year offer Klarna or some similar service and all of them have been implemented as just another option in a set of radio buttons.
- ahartmetz 5y ago
  > It's incredibly helpful to have easy-access financing to split purchases across a few months. I don't know, it seems like a failure at adulting to have to do that for small to medium sized purchases. If you need the feature, you probably should not have it available. Maybe this is my German attitude about money - basically, only take on debt for investments, a notable example being housing.
- fogihujy 5y ago
  > So what? It's 0% interest. Debt is slavery and so on. Let's not get too hung up on the fact that I dislike it. > Most e-commerce sites I've used in the past year offer Klarna or some similar service and all of them have been implemented as just another option in a set of radio buttons. Radio buttons is fine. It's the defaults and "are you sure you don't want to pay with credit?" questions I'm bugged out about. I don't have an issue with them offering it as an option. I've seen it with multiple websites using Klarna for payment handling.
  - gruez 5y ago
    >Debt is slavery and so on. No it's not, and statements like that trivializes the mistreatment that actual slaves went through.
    - kqr 5y ago
      I agree, but just to clarify: inability to pay one's debts has historically been one of the primary ways into forced labour with unfavourable conditions. A bit away from slavery still, but not a completely out of the air connection.

prestigious 5y ago

Card payments are usually debt also?

fogihujy 5y ago
Debit cards is more common in quite a few places. My impression has always been that paying everything with a credit card is a U.S. thing. Here in Finland, It's not uncommon to have no debt apart from the mortage on one's home.
- hervature 5y ago
  Mortgages are 70% of debt in the US. It is like saying I got perfect on a test except for the 70% I got wrong.
  - xmodem 5y ago
    Not really. Mortgages are secured against the property, and attract low interest rates compared to unsecured debt like a credit card.
  - scbrg 5y ago
    That's interesting. Mortgages are 100% of my debt, and the debt of most everyone I know. Which I guess was the point GP tried to make.
- oriolid 5y ago
  Finland doesn't have credit score system, so there's no reason to not pay not pay the credit card bill immediately. There is certain push towards credit cards, though. As far as I remember my bank would charge a yearly fee for debit card, but credit card is free for me.
- philsnow 5y ago
  For what it's worth, I have paid for nearly everything I possibly could with credit cards for decades, and I haven't paid a cent in credit card finance charges in at least 15 years (since my fiancee straightened me out and helped me see that I was being dumb about debt). I have them set to auto-pay the entire balance every pay period. I use them because consumer protections with other methods aren't as good here in the States. Paying with a credit card, if I have an issue with a vendor, after a good faith effort on my part to resolve the issue, I can just ask the credit card company to deal with it. (I don't abuse this, but I don't doubt there are people who do.) There are better and worse credit card companies for this. American Express has great customer service but they aren't accepted in as many places.
null_object 5y ago
> Card payments are usually debt also? Debit card payments are not debt - they're effectively the same as a direct transfer from the user's bank account. I'm very conflicted about Klarna - on the one hand they do present an easy and (usually) safe way to handle transactions with small retailers to whom I don't necessarily want to share my payment details. But on the other hand, they use a variety of dark patterns to try to get you to pay: 1. on credit 2. by signing-up for their credit-card One unfortunate part of their earlier history, was that when you promised to pay with Klarna on a website, and was told you'd receive the invoice, there was a (perceived?) tendency for that invoice to never be sent due to an 'oversight'. When this happens in Sweden, the buyer gets a reminder a few days after the due-date, with a pretty large extra amount to pay. There were quite a few stories about this in the press at various times [0], and I know quite a few people from Klarna and would tease them about it - which they always strenuously denied - but then it happened to me. In any case, finding out how this happened is going to be interesting. [0] in Swedish: https://www.svd.se/mangder-av-klagomal-mot-klarnas-fakturor https://www.svd.se/mangder-av-klagomal-mot-klarnas-fakturor DeepL translation: "Lots of complaints against Klarna invoices. Klarna, the high-profile IT company, is being criticised by a host of customers. Many say they receive invoices with reminder fees and collection demands directly, without having been reached by an original invoice. The Swedish Consumer Agency is critical of Klarna's invoicing methods for several reasons and is currently investigating whether the company is behaving legally." Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator

feu 5y ago

>They're deliberately trying to get people to take on debt rather than just do card payments So what? It's 0% interest. It's incredibly helpful to have easy-access financing to split purchases across a few months. >even simple things like buying a book through a web site requires declining several offers for paying with credit. This sounds so specific it seems like you're taking a bad experience with one website and pretending all websites are like this. Most e-commerce sites I've used in the past year offer Klarna or some similar service and all of them have been implemented as just another option in a set of radio buttons.

ahartmetz 5y ago
> It's incredibly helpful to have easy-access financing to split purchases across a few months. I don't know, it seems like a failure at adulting to have to do that for small to medium sized purchases. If you need the feature, you probably should not have it available. Maybe this is my German attitude about money - basically, only take on debt for investments, a notable example being housing.
fogihujy 5y ago
> So what? It's 0% interest. Debt is slavery and so on. Let's not get too hung up on the fact that I dislike it. > Most e-commerce sites I've used in the past year offer Klarna or some similar service and all of them have been implemented as just another option in a set of radio buttons. Radio buttons is fine. It's the defaults and "are you sure you don't want to pay with credit?" questions I'm bugged out about. I don't have an issue with them offering it as an option. I've seen it with multiple websites using Klarna for payment handling.
- gruez 5y ago
  >Debt is slavery and so on. No it's not, and statements like that trivializes the mistreatment that actual slaves went through.
  - kqr 5y ago
    I agree, but just to clarify: inability to pay one's debts has historically been one of the primary ways into forced labour with unfavourable conditions. A bit away from slavery still, but not a completely out of the air connection.