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> The story of a father killing his son is found in other tales in the west, perhaps most famously in Arthurian legend. Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iva

> The story of a father killing his son is found in other tales in the west, perhaps most famously in Arthurian legend. Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_the_Terrible_and_His_Son_Ivan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_the_Terrible_and_His_Son_... and: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titus_Manlius_Imperiosus_Torquatus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titus_Manlius_Imperiosus_Torqu... P.S. > the Celtic story of Tristan and Isolde ... where the young man goes off and marries someone else for a while before returning to his true love. Now that I see it summarized, I'm surprised the British tabloids did not latch on to it ... probably too obscure a source, lacking a movie to drive it.

JasonFruit 5y ago
Like, for example, an entire opera by Wagner…
agumonkey 5y ago
And it's probably emotional/biological.. even star wars had a son/father struggle. Who coined the metaphorical 'killing father' concept ?
- handrous 5y ago
  Oedipus is an early one. What, 350-400BCE? Somewhere around there? [spoilers?] Oedipus is prophesied to kill his father and marry his mother, so runs off trying to avoid this horrible fate, but makes the rookie mistake of killing some rando old enough to be his dad (surprise! He was!) and then marrying a lady old enough to be his mom (surprise! She was!) Though that's more of a literal "killing father" than a metaphorical one, I guess. Then of course there's the story of how the core Greek pantheon comes to be, which features patricide very prominently and probably dates, in something resembling the form we know it, to ~800BCE, and possibly much older in cultures that influenced the Greeks. [EDIT] I can't recall anything like that in the ~1800-2000BCE Gilgamesh, but there may be something. I remember that one having a lot more mommy issues than daddy issues.
  - 0xbadcafebee 5y ago
    Well each culture has its own quirks which changes how often you see a particular story. Greek culture held that the Gods saw "blood crime" as the worst thing imaginable, so you get a lot of mythic story arcs around it. For later Western European cultures, killing your kin just means you're taking initiative.
    - JasonFruit 5y ago
      > killing your kin just means you're taking initiative Well, that's a lot less true once you get outside the upper classes where succession based on descent was a way to wealth and power.
  - agumonkey 5y ago
    It's funny how I didn't appreciate the depth of oedipus. Younger I read it like a thriller.. with a big plot twist. Not as an existential metaphor about inner desires, love bonds and family ties.
kowlo 5y ago
Rostam and Sohrab.... tragic fun art https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e4/f4/08/e4f40806a8afb57fd6619a2a7e0b7fa0.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e4/f4/08/e4f40806a8afb57fd661...

JasonFruit 5y ago

Like, for example, an entire opera by Wagner…

agumonkey 5y ago

And it's probably emotional/biological.. even star wars had a son/father struggle. Who coined the metaphorical 'killing father' concept ?

handrous 5y ago
Oedipus is an early one. What, 350-400BCE? Somewhere around there? [spoilers?] Oedipus is prophesied to kill his father and marry his mother, so runs off trying to avoid this horrible fate, but makes the rookie mistake of killing some rando old enough to be his dad (surprise! He was!) and then marrying a lady old enough to be his mom (surprise! She was!) Though that's more of a literal "killing father" than a metaphorical one, I guess. Then of course there's the story of how the core Greek pantheon comes to be, which features patricide very prominently and probably dates, in something resembling the form we know it, to ~800BCE, and possibly much older in cultures that influenced the Greeks. [EDIT] I can't recall anything like that in the ~1800-2000BCE Gilgamesh, but there may be something. I remember that one having a lot more mommy issues than daddy issues.
- 0xbadcafebee 5y ago
  Well each culture has its own quirks which changes how often you see a particular story. Greek culture held that the Gods saw "blood crime" as the worst thing imaginable, so you get a lot of mythic story arcs around it. For later Western European cultures, killing your kin just means you're taking initiative.
  - JasonFruit 5y ago
    > killing your kin just means you're taking initiative Well, that's a lot less true once you get outside the upper classes where succession based on descent was a way to wealth and power.
- agumonkey 5y ago
  It's funny how I didn't appreciate the depth of oedipus. Younger I read it like a thriller.. with a big plot twist. Not as an existential metaphor about inner desires, love bonds and family ties.

kowlo 5y ago

Rostam and Sohrab.... tragic fun art https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e4/f4/08/e4f40806a8afb57fd6619a2a7e0b7fa0.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e4/f4/08/e4f40806a8afb57fd661...