4 ms·

You can say that, but I've heard the diatribes that the "China virus" was because they were playing with 5G and viruses and it escaped into bats and those china

You can say that, but I've heard the diatribes that the "China virus" was because they were playing with 5G and viruses and it escaped into bats and those chinamen ate the bats and...(cringe). Just go look up the conspiracies if you think I'm out of line - this is the mild version. Most of the mouthbreathers talking earlier about the "China virus" labs was predominately with pro-trump, anti-vaxxer, anti-masker individuals (well, starting with trump first). It was political grandstanding at its best, combined with 'us vs them' mentality, and a hefty scooping of conspiracy theory. So yes, the bulk of us thinking peoples justly figured this was what it appeared to be: yet another Anti-Chinese diatribe done by a white nationalist conspiracy nut (aka: trump).

eplanit 5y ago
Your comment makes mostrovs point in the comment above.
- duckfang 5y ago
  Easy to say that. But when you tear these claims down, they started with anything but factual or substantial. 1. COVID wasnt caused by 5G. Nor vice versa. 2. We've seen MERS, SARS, and other coronavirus diseases previously in the region. This isn't the only one, and wont be the last. 3. "Chinaman virus" is a point that comes from racism. It only highlights racist beliefs, and is no way any proof. (Why wasnt the "Spanish Flu" called "Kansas Kough" - it started on a Kansas military base?) 4. The most vehement supports of this conspiracy also loudly proclaim that masks don't work, and the vaccine is microchipped. 5. Masks work, of different efficacy depending on filter levels 6. No, the vaccine has no microchips. And if you want to dig deeper, go watch the "Plandemic" video. That's an hour or so of conspiracy, including the elites infected the plebes to make more money. When 1 conspiracy is chopped off, 2 take its place.
  - pseudo0 5y ago
    Constructing an extraordinarily elaborate strawman does not make your beating up of that strawman argument any more impressive. Plenty of reasonable people simply asked "isn't it possible a lab with a history of safety issues studying coronaviruses made a mistake" and were immediately hit with these sorts of disingenuous guilt by association arguments.
yostrovs 5y ago
Smears, guilt by association, accusations of racism: this is what You chose to focus on and reject the lab leak theory. You didn't listen to the facts, the issues that seemed strange. The stunning thing is that you continue to cling to smears and accusations of racism as reasonable regarding this topic.
slibhb 5y ago
This post is a great example of the prevailing "everything is political" mentality. You take an empirical question that has a definitive answer (whether or not we'll ever have that answer) and turn it into a political issue. To you, a theory is invalid if your political enemies embrace that theory.
- duckfang 5y ago
  Of course it's political. The claim is "Chinese military virology lab was experimenting with highly infectious material, and it escaped into the general population." And back in October 2020, this was published: https://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsroom/press-releases/item/2112-intelligence-community-statement-on-origins-of-covid-19 https://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsroom/press-releases/item/2... . Is this right, or wrong? This whole pandemic could have been handled as "We are following the medical and scientific establishment on best handling of the pandemic", but that wasn't the case. Instead, we have US states that have 'declared' Covid done, or worse yet have states that forbid companies providing proof of vaccination. The simple requirement of wearing masks, was rarely enforced. Quite a lot of assaults happened because workers at stores said something. The politicians could have moved out of the way for science. They didnt, and they doubled down. And that got more people killed.
  - slibhb 5y ago
    "Where did covid come from?" is not a poliitcal question. It's an empirical question. Your decision to turn it into a political question is a dead-end that prevents you from thinking.
    - duckfang 5y ago
      Convenient that you ignore my link: https://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsroom/press-releases/item/2112-intelligence-community-statement-on-origins-of-covid-19 https://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsroom/press-releases/item/2... ------------------------- FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE ODNI News Release No. 11-20 April 30, 2020 Intelligence Community Statement on Origins of COVID-19 WASHINGTON, D.C. – The Office of the Director of National Intelligence today issued the following Intelligence Community (IC) statement: “The entire Intelligence Community has been consistently providing critical support to U.S. policymakers and those responding to the COVID-19 virus, which originated in China. The Intelligence Community also concurs with the wide scientific consensus that the COVID-19 virus was not manmade or genetically modified. “As we do in all crises, the Community’s experts respond by surging resources and producing critical intelligence on issues vital to U.S. national security. The IC will continue to rigorously examine emerging information and intelligence to determine whether the outbreak began through contact with infected animals or if it was the result of an accident at a laboratory in Wuhan.” ------------------------- Stress on the quote: "The Intelligence Community also concurs with the wide scientific consensus that the COVID-19 virus was not manmade or genetically modified." So, is it for scientific or political reasons you are ignoring this?
Chris2048 5y ago
> a white nationalist conspiracy nut (aka: trump) Sure, Trump seems prone to accepting conspiracy theories (or at least acts like it) - but why "white nationalist"? Seems like people like to sprinkle in these accusations when they thing their audience won't question it - but the evidence is a weak string of unsubstantiated guilt-by-associations.
- loopz 5y ago
  What about "America First", which supported Weimar Republic in 30's, isn't nationalistic? The idea was good (hit mark audience that needed respite from all the "great globalization"), but the execution was about treason ("Trump First").
  - Chris2048 5y ago
    And the "white" part?
    - loopz 5y ago
      Not speaking for others, but having fringe groups as security during official business, doesn't speak well of what other uses there might be for such groups.
      - Chris2048 5y ago
        That's fairly speculative for an explicit declaration that Trump is a white nationalist, and very much guilt-by-association. Also, I don't really consider a "white nationalist" to be a "nationalist" by the usual sense of the word (applying to nation), but rather a rarer, more abstract sense of the word (applying abstractly to "groups" such as race). White nationalism isn't necessarily compatible with race-defined nationalism e.g. if you would prioritise foreign whites over domestic non-whites.
        loopz 5y ago
        It must be speculative, that's the entire purpose of associating with such groups and using them as political ammunition. Doesn't stop these people from throwing them under the bus later, if the bet doesn't pan out.

eplanit 5y ago

Your comment makes mostrovs point in the comment above.

duckfang 5y ago
Easy to say that. But when you tear these claims down, they started with anything but factual or substantial. 1. COVID wasnt caused by 5G. Nor vice versa. 2. We've seen MERS, SARS, and other coronavirus diseases previously in the region. This isn't the only one, and wont be the last. 3. "Chinaman virus" is a point that comes from racism. It only highlights racist beliefs, and is no way any proof. (Why wasnt the "Spanish Flu" called "Kansas Kough" - it started on a Kansas military base?) 4. The most vehement supports of this conspiracy also loudly proclaim that masks don't work, and the vaccine is microchipped. 5. Masks work, of different efficacy depending on filter levels 6. No, the vaccine has no microchips. And if you want to dig deeper, go watch the "Plandemic" video. That's an hour or so of conspiracy, including the elites infected the plebes to make more money. When 1 conspiracy is chopped off, 2 take its place.
- pseudo0 5y ago
  Constructing an extraordinarily elaborate strawman does not make your beating up of that strawman argument any more impressive. Plenty of reasonable people simply asked "isn't it possible a lab with a history of safety issues studying coronaviruses made a mistake" and were immediately hit with these sorts of disingenuous guilt by association arguments.

yostrovs 5y ago

Smears, guilt by association, accusations of racism: this is what You chose to focus on and reject the lab leak theory. You didn't listen to the facts, the issues that seemed strange. The stunning thing is that you continue to cling to smears and accusations of racism as reasonable regarding this topic.

slibhb 5y ago

This post is a great example of the prevailing "everything is political" mentality. You take an empirical question that has a definitive answer (whether or not we'll ever have that answer) and turn it into a political issue. To you, a theory is invalid if your political enemies embrace that theory.

duckfang 5y ago
Of course it's political. The claim is "Chinese military virology lab was experimenting with highly infectious material, and it escaped into the general population." And back in October 2020, this was published: https://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsroom/press-releases/item/2112-intelligence-community-statement-on-origins-of-covid-19 https://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsroom/press-releases/item/2... . Is this right, or wrong? This whole pandemic could have been handled as "We are following the medical and scientific establishment on best handling of the pandemic", but that wasn't the case. Instead, we have US states that have 'declared' Covid done, or worse yet have states that forbid companies providing proof of vaccination. The simple requirement of wearing masks, was rarely enforced. Quite a lot of assaults happened because workers at stores said something. The politicians could have moved out of the way for science. They didnt, and they doubled down. And that got more people killed.
- slibhb 5y ago
  "Where did covid come from?" is not a poliitcal question. It's an empirical question. Your decision to turn it into a political question is a dead-end that prevents you from thinking.
  - duckfang 5y ago
    Convenient that you ignore my link: https://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsroom/press-releases/item/2112-intelligence-community-statement-on-origins-of-covid-19 https://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsroom/press-releases/item/2... ------------------------- FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE ODNI News Release No. 11-20 April 30, 2020 Intelligence Community Statement on Origins of COVID-19 WASHINGTON, D.C. – The Office of the Director of National Intelligence today issued the following Intelligence Community (IC) statement: “The entire Intelligence Community has been consistently providing critical support to U.S. policymakers and those responding to the COVID-19 virus, which originated in China. The Intelligence Community also concurs with the wide scientific consensus that the COVID-19 virus was not manmade or genetically modified. “As we do in all crises, the Community’s experts respond by surging resources and producing critical intelligence on issues vital to U.S. national security. The IC will continue to rigorously examine emerging information and intelligence to determine whether the outbreak began through contact with infected animals or if it was the result of an accident at a laboratory in Wuhan.” ------------------------- Stress on the quote: "The Intelligence Community also concurs with the wide scientific consensus that the COVID-19 virus was not manmade or genetically modified." So, is it for scientific or political reasons you are ignoring this?

Chris2048 5y ago

> a white nationalist conspiracy nut (aka: trump) Sure, Trump seems prone to accepting conspiracy theories (or at least acts like it) - but why "white nationalist"? Seems like people like to sprinkle in these accusations when they thing their audience won't question it - but the evidence is a weak string of unsubstantiated guilt-by-associations.

loopz 5y ago
What about "America First", which supported Weimar Republic in 30's, isn't nationalistic? The idea was good (hit mark audience that needed respite from all the "great globalization"), but the execution was about treason ("Trump First").
- Chris2048 5y ago
  And the "white" part?
  - loopz 5y ago
    Not speaking for others, but having fringe groups as security during official business, doesn't speak well of what other uses there might be for such groups.
    - Chris2048 5y ago
      That's fairly speculative for an explicit declaration that Trump is a white nationalist, and very much guilt-by-association. Also, I don't really consider a "white nationalist" to be a "nationalist" by the usual sense of the word (applying to nation), but rather a rarer, more abstract sense of the word (applying abstractly to "groups" such as race). White nationalism isn't necessarily compatible with race-defined nationalism e.g. if you would prioritise foreign whites over domestic non-whites.
      - loopz 5y ago
        It must be speculative, that's the entire purpose of associating with such groups and using them as political ammunition. Doesn't stop these people from throwing them under the bus later, if the bet doesn't pan out.