10 ms·

There's lots of safety mechanisms like this in manufacturing. I've also seen "light curtains" which are essentially 2 bars on either side of a hazard. If anyt

There's lots of safety mechanisms like this in manufacturing. I've also seen "light curtains" which are essentially 2 bars on either side of a hazard. If anything crosses that plane, the machine stops automatically. There are also pressure pads. For one type, you have to be standing on for the machine to operate so that you are in a safe location when it starts. For the other, the pad covers the danger area and the machine will not operate if there's any weight detected. Trying to think of any others I've run into. It's actually pretty interesting stuff. You've got to keep in mind that the operator is liable to be in a hurry, tired, stupid, or any combination thereof.

gxs 5y ago
Another one is machinery where you have to "enter" the machine to do maintenance. Think industrial ovens. You're supposed to turn off the circuit breaker and lock it with your own personal lock that only you have the key to. That way no one can turn it on even if they wanted to. I've heard no one, under any circumstances is allowed to take the lock off. If the person leaves after their shift and forgets to take it off for example, they have to come back in the middle of the night so to speak and take it off.
- agency 5y ago
  I think this is called lock out tag out https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockout–tagout https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockout–tagout
- mdturnerphys 5y ago
  Not just equipment you have to enter. This is used in situations with "stored energy" or other systems that need to be turned off or otherwise disabled for safe maintenance. There are multi-lock hasps that can be used if multiple people have overlapping needs to lock out the system, and other devices such as valve handles covers, etc., that help with locking out components don't have a built-in place for a lock.
- bananapear 5y ago
  An example, not a nice way to go - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-32050998 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-32050998
  - ta988 5y ago
    A recent one in US https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/bumble-bee-pay-6-million-over-employee-cooked-tuna-oven-n408721 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/bumble-bee-pay-6-millio...
- msrenee 5y ago
  As someone else mentioned, that's a lockout-tagout procedure. Very common when doing any kind of maintenance on a machine. You isolate the power sources and place a personal lock on it to which only you have the key. It usually has your name and an ID number written on it. The lock cannot be removed by anyone else. If you, for instance, forget to take your lock off and go home, it's a very long process where they have to get someone high enough up the chain to get in contact with you and either get you to come back or confirm that you're safely a long way away from the machine before they can cut the lock off. This makes your management very unhappy and most places that I've worked will write you up for leaving while the equipment is still locked out if maintenance is finished and it's safe to operate. It's not only electricity that needs to be isolated and locked out. A lot of machines use air pressure to operate moving parts, so in that case you'd have to isolate all electrical sources as well as the air. The machines I usually mess with require 2 locks. Some of the machines I've seen can require 6 or more locks to be fully locked out and safe to work on.
  - zentiggr 5y ago
    When I served on a submarine, tagout procedures were followed to the letter. A typical maintenance period might require 100 or so separate tagouts, each of which could require anywhere from one to dozens of tags. Each duty watch was required to show up early enough to go through the entire tagout book and at least know the gist of what was in progress. Finding a loose tag was an automatic all hands all work stoppage, until it was tracked down and resolved. No questions, even if your work was in a different compartment, or had no logical connection to what he tag was for. Each new tagout request had to be signed off on by at least three people, sometimes all the way up to the captain and not just a foreman or supervisor but one or more shop heads. Seawater system tagouts on a floating sub were serious business.
- ta988 5y ago
  These make the worst horror stories I've read from various safety organizations. Tanks with gases (nitrogen is particularly sneaky), ovens, radioactive sources... If you want to learn about industrial risks based on real stories watch the CBS videos https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f2ItJe2Incs https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f2ItJe2Incs
akiselev 5y ago
Another awesome safety system is the SawStop which uses the conductivity of skin to monitor for contact against the blade in a tablesaw. If it detects contact a small explosive charge goes off, instantly sending a block of aluminum into the path of the blade, stopping it dead. Even a serious accident like leaning with an elbow against a moving blade is likely to result in little more than the scratch from hitting a stationary sharp object rather than decapitation. Sadly the inventor couldn't convince the tablesaw manufacturers to use his invention for cost and/or liability reasons so he had to make his own. Their tablesaws themselves are relatively expensive but cost per accident is $100 for the charge plus whatever the blade costs, so basically $200 to prevent serious injury or death.
- ArchOversight 5y ago
  The biggest problem with the saw stop is that wood when it is even slightly moist can set it off. So on a worksite if you are using lumber that hasn't had adequate time to dry the saw stop would trip even without any limbs being in danger. Each time it would destroy itself, you would have to take the saw apart and change it which would cause a work stoppage. What irks me the most is that the SawStop owner tried to create legislation that would have required companies to use his product.
  - akiselev 5y ago
    Do you know what moisture level sets it off? I didn't even think about that - it's easy to take Southern California's weather for granted. Here it's either pretty much ready from the lumberyard or you got it right off the mill's truck so it has to sit for a few days/weeks. The lobbying is off putting, yes, but at least his greedy self-interest would do some actual good instead of extracting evermore capital from everyone. Powertools inhabit this uncanny valley of dangerous equipment where they're cheap and accessible enough to the average joe (compared to CNC machining centers or forklifts or whatever) yet powerful enough to do some real damage. My understanding is that the primary reason the major manufacturers didn't want the SawStop wasn't cost but the fear that it would expose them to more liability by making the tools seem less dangerous. I really wish it achieves mass adoption so that the price drops even further.
mustacheemperor 5y ago
>one type, you have to be standing on for the machine to operate so that you are in a safe location when it starts Of course, the weakness of a system like this being if middle management is demanding unachievable timelines and/or people in the shop are willing to cut corners, someone can leave a box of heavy stuff on the pressure pad to "save time." Absolutely right that all these systems need to be resilient to operator tiredness etc

gxs 5y ago

Another one is machinery where you have to "enter" the machine to do maintenance. Think industrial ovens. You're supposed to turn off the circuit breaker and lock it with your own personal lock that only you have the key to. That way no one can turn it on even if they wanted to. I've heard no one, under any circumstances is allowed to take the lock off. If the person leaves after their shift and forgets to take it off for example, they have to come back in the middle of the night so to speak and take it off.

agency 5y ago
I think this is called lock out tag out https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockout–tagout https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockout–tagout
mdturnerphys 5y ago
Not just equipment you have to enter. This is used in situations with "stored energy" or other systems that need to be turned off or otherwise disabled for safe maintenance. There are multi-lock hasps that can be used if multiple people have overlapping needs to lock out the system, and other devices such as valve handles covers, etc., that help with locking out components don't have a built-in place for a lock.
bananapear 5y ago
An example, not a nice way to go - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-32050998 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-32050998
- ta988 5y ago
  A recent one in US https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/bumble-bee-pay-6-million-over-employee-cooked-tuna-oven-n408721 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/bumble-bee-pay-6-millio...
msrenee 5y ago
As someone else mentioned, that's a lockout-tagout procedure. Very common when doing any kind of maintenance on a machine. You isolate the power sources and place a personal lock on it to which only you have the key. It usually has your name and an ID number written on it. The lock cannot be removed by anyone else. If you, for instance, forget to take your lock off and go home, it's a very long process where they have to get someone high enough up the chain to get in contact with you and either get you to come back or confirm that you're safely a long way away from the machine before they can cut the lock off. This makes your management very unhappy and most places that I've worked will write you up for leaving while the equipment is still locked out if maintenance is finished and it's safe to operate. It's not only electricity that needs to be isolated and locked out. A lot of machines use air pressure to operate moving parts, so in that case you'd have to isolate all electrical sources as well as the air. The machines I usually mess with require 2 locks. Some of the machines I've seen can require 6 or more locks to be fully locked out and safe to work on.
- zentiggr 5y ago
  When I served on a submarine, tagout procedures were followed to the letter. A typical maintenance period might require 100 or so separate tagouts, each of which could require anywhere from one to dozens of tags. Each duty watch was required to show up early enough to go through the entire tagout book and at least know the gist of what was in progress. Finding a loose tag was an automatic all hands all work stoppage, until it was tracked down and resolved. No questions, even if your work was in a different compartment, or had no logical connection to what he tag was for. Each new tagout request had to be signed off on by at least three people, sometimes all the way up to the captain and not just a foreman or supervisor but one or more shop heads. Seawater system tagouts on a floating sub were serious business.
ta988 5y ago
These make the worst horror stories I've read from various safety organizations. Tanks with gases (nitrogen is particularly sneaky), ovens, radioactive sources... If you want to learn about industrial risks based on real stories watch the CBS videos https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f2ItJe2Incs https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f2ItJe2Incs

akiselev 5y ago

Another awesome safety system is the SawStop which uses the conductivity of skin to monitor for contact against the blade in a tablesaw. If it detects contact a small explosive charge goes off, instantly sending a block of aluminum into the path of the blade, stopping it dead. Even a serious accident like leaning with an elbow against a moving blade is likely to result in little more than the scratch from hitting a stationary sharp object rather than decapitation. Sadly the inventor couldn't convince the tablesaw manufacturers to use his invention for cost and/or liability reasons so he had to make his own. Their tablesaws themselves are relatively expensive but cost per accident is $100 for the charge plus whatever the blade costs, so basically $200 to prevent serious injury or death.

ArchOversight 5y ago
The biggest problem with the saw stop is that wood when it is even slightly moist can set it off. So on a worksite if you are using lumber that hasn't had adequate time to dry the saw stop would trip even without any limbs being in danger. Each time it would destroy itself, you would have to take the saw apart and change it which would cause a work stoppage. What irks me the most is that the SawStop owner tried to create legislation that would have required companies to use his product.
- akiselev 5y ago
  Do you know what moisture level sets it off? I didn't even think about that - it's easy to take Southern California's weather for granted. Here it's either pretty much ready from the lumberyard or you got it right off the mill's truck so it has to sit for a few days/weeks. The lobbying is off putting, yes, but at least his greedy self-interest would do some actual good instead of extracting evermore capital from everyone. Powertools inhabit this uncanny valley of dangerous equipment where they're cheap and accessible enough to the average joe (compared to CNC machining centers or forklifts or whatever) yet powerful enough to do some real damage. My understanding is that the primary reason the major manufacturers didn't want the SawStop wasn't cost but the fear that it would expose them to more liability by making the tools seem less dangerous. I really wish it achieves mass adoption so that the price drops even further.

mustacheemperor 5y ago

>one type, you have to be standing on for the machine to operate so that you are in a safe location when it starts Of course, the weakness of a system like this being if middle management is demanding unachievable timelines and/or people in the shop are willing to cut corners, someone can leave a box of heavy stuff on the pressure pad to "save time." Absolutely right that all these systems need to be resilient to operator tiredness etc