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Cautiously optimistic but I'm always wary of unions that get the corporations blessing. We have some like that in Australia (SDA stands out as I used to be a me

Cautiously optimistic but I'm always wary of unions that get the corporations blessing. We have some like that in Australia (SDA stands out as I used to be a member) and they can be incredibly toothless at times. But that being said, I would rather be in a weaker union than no union at all. Unionisation like this is always a positive for the workers and I hope it brings about positive changes for all of Ubers drivers and leads to further unionisation efforts in the ride sharing market around the globe. If you're an uber driver in the UK get active and push for the improvements you need, and if you're an uber driver around the world start organising!

maxehmookau 5y ago
The GMB is one of the UK's largest trade unions. If they don't have teeth, nobody does, so I'm more than cautiously optimistic. This is excellent news.
- stolen_biscuit 5y ago
  I wasn't familiar with them, I just looked them up, thanks for letting me know. That has made me a bit more optimistic about the path forward there!
- docdeek 5y ago
  Not OP but SDA union is - by numbers - one of the largest unions in Australia but is not well known for protecting its members (mostly retail workers).
  - somedangedname 5y ago
    I'm hopeful that the RAFFWU (https://raffwu.org.au/ https://raffwu.org.au/) can supplant the SDA in the future.
- pydry 5y ago
  They haven't been so successful with nurses. 12% effective pay cut over a decade.
  - maxehmookau 5y ago
    For sure. I can only think the situation would be so much worse without them.
    - pydry 5y ago
      Possibly. Either way they dont seem very effective compared to the previous decade, or, say, Unite. Supporting Owen Smith (an anodyne career politician who is now a PR flack) in the Labour leadership election in what looks like a rigged vote isn't indicative of a pro worker outlook, either: https://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/10/17/who-do-you-trust-was-the-gmbs-endorsement-of-owen-smith-rigged/ https://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/10/17/who-do-you-trust-w...
      - maxehmookau 5y ago
        Unfortunately over a decade of government run by a party that are pretty hostile towards trade unions will have that effect.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
vidarh 5y ago
Uber has only very limited control over which union gets to represent workers (not in the UK anyway), so if toothless unions ends up representing people, that is because those are the unions their workers choose.
- pmyteh 5y ago
  Although any union is able to represent members at any workplace, it's worth noting that this does affect future claims for recognition (and so collective bargaining rights) for other unions. In particular, if an employer refuses to recognise a union they have a right to apply for 'statutory recognition' through the Central Arbitration Committee - but this can only succeed if there is no other recognised union for that bargaining unit[0]. The GMB are a large, well-established, general union. It wouldn't surprise me if Uber were much keener on having them as the sole recognised union than, say, the Independent Workers' Union of Great Britain[1] - who are also organising Uber workers and are smaller, scrappier, and more militant than the GMB. [0]: https://www.gov.uk/trade-union-recognition-employers/statutory-recognition https://www.gov.uk/trade-union-recognition-employers/statuto... [1]: https://iwgb.org.uk/ https://iwgb.org.uk/
PoignardAzur 5y ago
In France we call those "yellow unions", as opposed to "red unions" which are more adversarial with the company. The most notable yellow union is CFDT, which is one of the largest cross-sector unions in the country. A saying I heard once was "Management could establish slavery, and CFDT would negotiate the weight of the chains".
- Mauricebranagh 5y ago
  Are not the red unions the communist one :-) France has multiple versions of unions based on politics for those that didn't know.
- pmoriarty 5y ago
  So why do yellow unions' members tolerate their toothlessness?
  - thanatos519 5y ago
    The yellow unions wear yellow vests, but the red unions wear red shirts.
    - pkaye 5y ago
      Which union would be best if you work on a starship?
  - PoignardAzur 5y ago
    Just because they have a good relationship with the management doesn't mean they're toothless. Some employees don't want to be threatening a strike every week. But yeah, people who identify with the more militant unions kind of despise the CFDT types.
  - ekianjo 5y ago
    Natural selection. Red unions make companies go bankrupt, and relocate outside of France. Btw unions are mandatory in France above 50 employees. Which is why you find an awful lot of companies with 49 employees in France.
whitepaint 5y ago
What if I want to work just for a few hours on a Friday night and that's it? What if I want to directly interface with Uber without anyone being above me (the union in this case)? More power is stripped from me in this case as it always happens; Union = less freedom for an individual.
- LatteLazy 5y ago
  In the uk you're not obliged to join, you still have to option to accept whatever they negotiate (still without joining) and you can just choose to keep doing whatever you were doing before. There's very little upside to uk unions but there is very little downside either, they're basically pointless...
  - whitepaint 5y ago
    > In the uk you're not obliged to join Thank god. I wish it was a standard for absolutely every job that has unions. Leave it to the individual if they choose to.
    - bildung 5y ago
      No idea where you live but it is the same in the US, since 1947.
      - josephcsible 5y ago
        This is completely true in 27 states and a few localities, but in the rest of the US, it's only true due to a technicality: if you want, you can choose to not get the union's benefits but still have to pay them dues. Obviously, this isn't what people have in mind.
- airza 5y ago
  Isn't it kinda weird that every single large company moves aggressively to crush labor unions if they are so bad for the individual worker? I keep seeing this perspective and it is baffling to me.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Mauricebranagh 5y ago
How else do you get recognition ?
- bwestergard 5y ago
  In the U.S., workers are entitled to choose union representation by filing a petition with the National Labor Relations Board. If the employer refuses to recognize the union on the basis of a majority showing of interest, the NLRB will schedule an election. If the majority of workers vote for the union, it is certified, and the employer is legally obligated to bargain. Virtually every democracy has some mechanism for certifying unions on the basis of majority support.
  - Mauricebranagh 5y ago
    Its the same in the UK but the company and union will work together - not sure what your point is. I have worked on a successful UK recognition campaign BTW
    - bobthepanda 5y ago
      The point is that the process the person you’re responding to is saying also applies if the company is not willing to work with the union. You did ask how else a union would organize without being blessed by corporate as this one is.
throwkeep 5y ago
Maybe it's always positive for poor performers since they become entrenched, but not always for workers generally, and not in the larger picture. If you don't think that's true, then why not start a company where you build in a union from the start? You can even have all workers be owners with equal voting rights. There's nothing stopping you from doing that! Or join an existing one, as they exist, even in the US. It's completely legal and you won't be opposed. Forcing your model on existing companies is where it becomes objectionable. Start your own if you think it's a better approach. If it is, it'll win out and you won't have to force it on others. They will copy it willingly and eagerly.
- fuzzer37 5y ago
  > If it is, it'll win out and you won't have to force it on others. They will copy it willingly and eagerly. I don't really think this is a fair comparison when Uber's business model is literally to undercut the competition in a market to drive out local competitors, then raise prices once they're basically a monopoly in an area.
- advisedwang 5y ago
  > You can even have all workers be owners with equal voting rights. There's nothing stopping you from doing that! There 100% is something stopping you from doing that: No investor will put money into a worker owned company. This means anything which requires up front investment is not really possible. Want to start a software company like this? You better be profitable on day 1 or otherwise have a whole team prepared to pay for servers out of pocket and work for free.
  - throwkeep 5y ago
    You do what most people do when they start companies. They start small, without VC investment. And with the internet, it's easier and cheaper than ever to start one.
ekianjo 5y ago
> Unionisation like this is always a positive for the workers Except when the unions actually actively try to destroy the company.

maxehmookau 5y ago

The GMB is one of the UK's largest trade unions. If they don't have teeth, nobody does, so I'm more than cautiously optimistic. This is excellent news.

stolen_biscuit 5y ago
I wasn't familiar with them, I just looked them up, thanks for letting me know. That has made me a bit more optimistic about the path forward there!
docdeek 5y ago
Not OP but SDA union is - by numbers - one of the largest unions in Australia but is not well known for protecting its members (mostly retail workers).
- somedangedname 5y ago
  I'm hopeful that the RAFFWU (https://raffwu.org.au/ https://raffwu.org.au/) can supplant the SDA in the future.
pydry 5y ago
They haven't been so successful with nurses. 12% effective pay cut over a decade.
- maxehmookau 5y ago
  For sure. I can only think the situation would be so much worse without them.
  - pydry 5y ago
    Possibly. Either way they dont seem very effective compared to the previous decade, or, say, Unite. Supporting Owen Smith (an anodyne career politician who is now a PR flack) in the Labour leadership election in what looks like a rigged vote isn't indicative of a pro worker outlook, either: https://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/10/17/who-do-you-trust-was-the-gmbs-endorsement-of-owen-smith-rigged/ https://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/10/17/who-do-you-trust-w...
    - maxehmookau 5y ago
      Unfortunately over a decade of government run by a party that are pretty hostile towards trade unions will have that effect.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

vidarh 5y ago

Uber has only very limited control over which union gets to represent workers (not in the UK anyway), so if toothless unions ends up representing people, that is because those are the unions their workers choose.

pmyteh 5y ago
Although any union is able to represent members at any workplace, it's worth noting that this does affect future claims for recognition (and so collective bargaining rights) for other unions. In particular, if an employer refuses to recognise a union they have a right to apply for 'statutory recognition' through the Central Arbitration Committee - but this can only succeed if there is no other recognised union for that bargaining unit[0]. The GMB are a large, well-established, general union. It wouldn't surprise me if Uber were much keener on having them as the sole recognised union than, say, the Independent Workers' Union of Great Britain[1] - who are also organising Uber workers and are smaller, scrappier, and more militant than the GMB. [0]: https://www.gov.uk/trade-union-recognition-employers/statutory-recognition https://www.gov.uk/trade-union-recognition-employers/statuto... [1]: https://iwgb.org.uk/ https://iwgb.org.uk/

PoignardAzur 5y ago

In France we call those "yellow unions", as opposed to "red unions" which are more adversarial with the company. The most notable yellow union is CFDT, which is one of the largest cross-sector unions in the country. A saying I heard once was "Management could establish slavery, and CFDT would negotiate the weight of the chains".

Mauricebranagh 5y ago
Are not the red unions the communist one :-) France has multiple versions of unions based on politics for those that didn't know.
pmoriarty 5y ago
So why do yellow unions' members tolerate their toothlessness?
- thanatos519 5y ago
  The yellow unions wear yellow vests, but the red unions wear red shirts.
  - pkaye 5y ago
    Which union would be best if you work on a starship?
- PoignardAzur 5y ago
  Just because they have a good relationship with the management doesn't mean they're toothless. Some employees don't want to be threatening a strike every week. But yeah, people who identify with the more militant unions kind of despise the CFDT types.
- ekianjo 5y ago
  Natural selection. Red unions make companies go bankrupt, and relocate outside of France. Btw unions are mandatory in France above 50 employees. Which is why you find an awful lot of companies with 49 employees in France.

whitepaint 5y ago

What if I want to work just for a few hours on a Friday night and that's it? What if I want to directly interface with Uber without anyone being above me (the union in this case)? More power is stripped from me in this case as it always happens; Union = less freedom for an individual.

LatteLazy 5y ago
In the uk you're not obliged to join, you still have to option to accept whatever they negotiate (still without joining) and you can just choose to keep doing whatever you were doing before. There's very little upside to uk unions but there is very little downside either, they're basically pointless...
- whitepaint 5y ago
  > In the uk you're not obliged to join Thank god. I wish it was a standard for absolutely every job that has unions. Leave it to the individual if they choose to.
  - bildung 5y ago
    No idea where you live but it is the same in the US, since 1947.
    - josephcsible 5y ago
      This is completely true in 27 states and a few localities, but in the rest of the US, it's only true due to a technicality: if you want, you can choose to not get the union's benefits but still have to pay them dues. Obviously, this isn't what people have in mind.
airza 5y ago
Isn't it kinda weird that every single large company moves aggressively to crush labor unions if they are so bad for the individual worker? I keep seeing this perspective and it is baffling to me.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

Mauricebranagh 5y ago

How else do you get recognition ?

bwestergard 5y ago
In the U.S., workers are entitled to choose union representation by filing a petition with the National Labor Relations Board. If the employer refuses to recognize the union on the basis of a majority showing of interest, the NLRB will schedule an election. If the majority of workers vote for the union, it is certified, and the employer is legally obligated to bargain. Virtually every democracy has some mechanism for certifying unions on the basis of majority support.
- Mauricebranagh 5y ago
  Its the same in the UK but the company and union will work together - not sure what your point is. I have worked on a successful UK recognition campaign BTW
  - bobthepanda 5y ago
    The point is that the process the person you’re responding to is saying also applies if the company is not willing to work with the union. You did ask how else a union would organize without being blessed by corporate as this one is.

throwkeep 5y ago

Maybe it's always positive for poor performers since they become entrenched, but not always for workers generally, and not in the larger picture. If you don't think that's true, then why not start a company where you build in a union from the start? You can even have all workers be owners with equal voting rights. There's nothing stopping you from doing that! Or join an existing one, as they exist, even in the US. It's completely legal and you won't be opposed. Forcing your model on existing companies is where it becomes objectionable. Start your own if you think it's a better approach. If it is, it'll win out and you won't have to force it on others. They will copy it willingly and eagerly.

fuzzer37 5y ago
> If it is, it'll win out and you won't have to force it on others. They will copy it willingly and eagerly. I don't really think this is a fair comparison when Uber's business model is literally to undercut the competition in a market to drive out local competitors, then raise prices once they're basically a monopoly in an area.
advisedwang 5y ago
> You can even have all workers be owners with equal voting rights. There's nothing stopping you from doing that! There 100% is something stopping you from doing that: No investor will put money into a worker owned company. This means anything which requires up front investment is not really possible. Want to start a software company like this? You better be profitable on day 1 or otherwise have a whole team prepared to pay for servers out of pocket and work for free.
- throwkeep 5y ago
  You do what most people do when they start companies. They start small, without VC investment. And with the internet, it's easier and cheaper than ever to start one.

ekianjo 5y ago

> Unionisation like this is always a positive for the workers Except when the unions actually actively try to destroy the company.