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In my view this is Instagram providing platitudes in an attempt get ahead of a growing consensus that social media is bad for people and society overall The ha

In my view this is Instagram providing platitudes in an attempt get ahead of a growing consensus that social media is bad for people and society overall The harm inflicted by social media is infinitely more complex and sinister than a simple count of likes on posts.

offtop5 5y ago
I'll give it another 5 years before social media is viewed on the same level as cigarettes. The best thing I've ever done for my mental health was deleting social media. I realize I'm not significant enough to argue of other people about my own life. As long as you're not harming anyone else you're free to do whatever you want. Social media says no you have to shape your entire life around what people you'll never meet find cool. I stopped begging for approval from the masses, I stopped going to Reddit to get "advice" from people who only seek to chastise me.
- simonswords82 5y ago
  Yep, same boat here. Deleted FB/Insta and avoiding altogether as it made me incredibly anxious. Still lurk on Reddit but no account there so I can't wade in to the comments. HN is the only forum I actively participate in.
- durovo 5y ago
  And now you hang out at HN which is totally different from social media. Where people never seek approval from the masses. Chastising other people as a concept does not exist on HN. HN, the not-social media, does not even have a concept of likes.
  - drunkpotato 5y ago
    I realize you’re being sarcastic and that hacker news is a social media, however there is a difference in degree and what behaviors the site encourages. For me, personally, using HN and a very limited set of subreddits is an enjoyable waste of time, and doesn’t feel like an addiction. I would also credit HN as exposing me to technologies I might otherwise not have seen, and enriching my life in some small way. As for other social media, I deleted my Facebook and Twitter and feel like a mentally healthier person for it, and I think it’s a choice everyone has to make for themselves, but we should be providing information and support to people who quit. I would liken it more to alcohol use: many enjoy it in moderation, it’s an addictive problem for some. I strongly dislike the semi-compulsory nature of Facebook groups for activities that only organize on Facebook.
  - offtop5 5y ago
    But you're not chastising me, or my physical appearance. Having people call you ugly all day is probably one of the worst parts of Instagram. You're merely chastising a few of my opinions. There's so much detachment from the rest of me. In the early days of Facebook I actually screwed up a relationship as I was worried my first girlfriend would post the wrong thing on my wall, and oh no all my friends would see. Hacker News isn't really a social media site since there's no concept of followers or friends here. If in any case you decide to go through my post history to make fun of me, I can just create a new handle. I can do this without even adding an email address.
    - MaxBarraclough 5y ago
      > Hacker News isn't really a social media site since there's no concept of followers or friends here. I'm not sure that matters all that much, it's just one way of doing things. Would HackerNews be a different beast if it gave you the option of viewing the most recent 40 comments from your 10 favourite commenters? I don't think so. Someone could even build this as a third-party UI if they wanted to. > If in any case you decide to go through my post history to make fun of me, I can just create a new handle. HackerNews is well moderated. I imagine the mods would view that kind of thing as harassment and put a stop to it, especially if you contacted them about it.
    - PragmaticPulp 5y ago
      > Having people call you ugly all day is probably one of the worst parts of Instagram. That’s not at all typical for Instagram. In fact, anyone being called “ugly” would do well to block whoever is making those comments, which is very easy on the platform. > Hacker News isn't really a social media site since there's no concept of followers or friends here. Hacker News is absolutely a social media. The comments section is all about social discussion and we have upvotes and downvotes. You may like it more than other forms of social media because it lacks pictures, allows usernames instead of real names, and replaces likes with upvotes (and downvotes, arguably more toxic than likes). However, it’s still social media.
      - lottin 5y ago
  - MaxBarraclough 5y ago
    The way scoring works on HN is importantly different though. Highly downvoted comments get greyed, but when a comment is highly upvoted, only the author sees. I can't see what your highest-scoring comments are. There's also a publicly visible total karma associated with each account, but it's not displayed prominently. I don't think submission scoring is particularly problematic.
  - codyb 5y ago
    This is the only social media I use anymore and while I still may drop it, and while I still do occasionally check my karma after posting, it’s easily the most rewarding social media experience I’ve dealt with given the concentration of talent; and the emphasis on quality, interesting content. You’re not wrong of course, but it feels a bit exaggerated.
  - mumblemumble 5y ago
    For my part, HN is the only thing like social media I still use. (Though I'm deliberately not counting things like irc and discord.) And now that I've been off social media long enough for my baselines to shift, I'm realizing I have some similar problems here, too. There's a difference in magnitude, of course, but not so much in form. So, yeah, you're absolutely right. And lately I've been actively considering canceling my subscription and spending more time just reading books.
  - Der_Einzige 5y ago
    I think HN is actually worse, as the "approval" you get here is ostensibly from peers and folks that one may think are "just like them". It's easy to brush off not being approved by random Karen's on Facebook but far harder to accept PG or someone like him calling you a loser...
    - offtop5 5y ago
      I'd be a bit honored if a billionaire took the time to insult me. Most successful people tend to be a bit above that. I enjoy HN since the discourse here tends to be fairly intelligent. I've already gained a great deal of very valuable information from this site
  - cronix 5y ago
    > HN, the not-social media, does not even have a concept of likes. Call em what you want, but upvotes/downvotes are in the same sphere as likes. Being downvoted into oblivion has the same mental effect as no likes or dislikes on other platforms, despite not being a 1:1 algorithm (1 upvote on HN does not necessarily equate to +1 in your karma) and even if you're the only one that can see them.
    - feudalism 5y ago
      I think the person you're replying to may have been sarcastic in their comment because all those things they mentioned do exist in some form on HN. Without those things, HN would not have the same allure as it does now. Of course upvotes/downvotes are a core part of HN; they even have a leaderboard. At least one particular "eccentric" character tends to boast about being on it as if it's a status symbol (which it may very well be, particularly if you're frequent on HN). One advantage with HN over reddit is that buffoonery is generally not rewarded.
  - Workaccount2 5y ago
    I get that HN is still social media, but the level of sludge here is at least an order of magnitude less than general reddit, and probably way better than twitter (I could never get into twitter despite trying my best). To me HN is the final hold out of the old social news sphere. Geeky computer nerds with inflated egos having (mostly) geeky computer nerd discussions. That doesn't sound like much, but at least the average IQ is higher than room temperature and knowledgeable discussion is more popular than puns.
MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
At the very least it'd help with the US's vanity complex. My whole life as a kid prior to social media was just "live." Post social media, now I borderline need to make a post here and there to prove I'm not a schizoid.
- simonswords82 5y ago
  Screw that - don't let the people on the Internet live rent free in your head. You don't have to post to prove anything.
  - MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
    You don't, but depending on your age, it certainly can help. Sometimes being a socialite can do more for you than just caring about money and privacy.
defaultname 5y ago
I recently created a Twitter account after ignoring the platform for years. I'm pretty well known and have had several significant presences online, but I didn't try to leverage any of that and wanted to see if the network had matured to the point that it is decaying (where it is just cemented into a core). I commented on various tweets. Left thoughtful tweets of my own on a variety of topics. Zero political tweets, but rather participated in the tech sphere including some niche realms. Zero engagement after months. I realized later that some of my comments were hidden under "see more" for other users -- even where I added a helpful comment to a person who themselves had double-digit followers, and where there were only a tiny handful of other comments. My tweets would get hundreds of views (maybe all scrapers), but no one is going to be the first to like some comment by some tiny account with a handful of "followers". So it sits there in Pathetic Valley. It's the curse of social networks. They get their long tail cemented in and pretty soon it's better for everyone else to wait for it to die and join something new. I deleted my twitter account and moved on. When Twitter's replacement comes along I'll get in on day one, copy some jokes some other people make and leave trite cynical comments and by month 2 I'll be a superstar. I feel like Instagram might be taking a stab at dealing with that, rather than some concern over mental health. When everyone new faces Pathetic Valley (unless they're going to buy followers, or go on a desperate campaign outside of the platform to foment engagement), it's the inevitable decline of the platform.

offtop5 5y ago

I'll give it another 5 years before social media is viewed on the same level as cigarettes. The best thing I've ever done for my mental health was deleting social media. I realize I'm not significant enough to argue of other people about my own life. As long as you're not harming anyone else you're free to do whatever you want. Social media says no you have to shape your entire life around what people you'll never meet find cool. I stopped begging for approval from the masses, I stopped going to Reddit to get "advice" from people who only seek to chastise me.

simonswords82 5y ago
Yep, same boat here. Deleted FB/Insta and avoiding altogether as it made me incredibly anxious. Still lurk on Reddit but no account there so I can't wade in to the comments. HN is the only forum I actively participate in.
durovo 5y ago
And now you hang out at HN which is totally different from social media. Where people never seek approval from the masses. Chastising other people as a concept does not exist on HN. HN, the not-social media, does not even have a concept of likes.
- drunkpotato 5y ago
  I realize you’re being sarcastic and that hacker news is a social media, however there is a difference in degree and what behaviors the site encourages. For me, personally, using HN and a very limited set of subreddits is an enjoyable waste of time, and doesn’t feel like an addiction. I would also credit HN as exposing me to technologies I might otherwise not have seen, and enriching my life in some small way. As for other social media, I deleted my Facebook and Twitter and feel like a mentally healthier person for it, and I think it’s a choice everyone has to make for themselves, but we should be providing information and support to people who quit. I would liken it more to alcohol use: many enjoy it in moderation, it’s an addictive problem for some. I strongly dislike the semi-compulsory nature of Facebook groups for activities that only organize on Facebook.
- offtop5 5y ago
  But you're not chastising me, or my physical appearance. Having people call you ugly all day is probably one of the worst parts of Instagram. You're merely chastising a few of my opinions. There's so much detachment from the rest of me. In the early days of Facebook I actually screwed up a relationship as I was worried my first girlfriend would post the wrong thing on my wall, and oh no all my friends would see. Hacker News isn't really a social media site since there's no concept of followers or friends here. If in any case you decide to go through my post history to make fun of me, I can just create a new handle. I can do this without even adding an email address.
  - MaxBarraclough 5y ago
    > Hacker News isn't really a social media site since there's no concept of followers or friends here. I'm not sure that matters all that much, it's just one way of doing things. Would HackerNews be a different beast if it gave you the option of viewing the most recent 40 comments from your 10 favourite commenters? I don't think so. Someone could even build this as a third-party UI if they wanted to. > If in any case you decide to go through my post history to make fun of me, I can just create a new handle. HackerNews is well moderated. I imagine the mods would view that kind of thing as harassment and put a stop to it, especially if you contacted them about it.
  - PragmaticPulp 5y ago
    > Having people call you ugly all day is probably one of the worst parts of Instagram. That’s not at all typical for Instagram. In fact, anyone being called “ugly” would do well to block whoever is making those comments, which is very easy on the platform. > Hacker News isn't really a social media site since there's no concept of followers or friends here. Hacker News is absolutely a social media. The comments section is all about social discussion and we have upvotes and downvotes. You may like it more than other forms of social media because it lacks pictures, allows usernames instead of real names, and replaces likes with upvotes (and downvotes, arguably more toxic than likes). However, it’s still social media.
    - lottin 5y ago
- MaxBarraclough 5y ago
  The way scoring works on HN is importantly different though. Highly downvoted comments get greyed, but when a comment is highly upvoted, only the author sees. I can't see what your highest-scoring comments are. There's also a publicly visible total karma associated with each account, but it's not displayed prominently. I don't think submission scoring is particularly problematic.
- codyb 5y ago
  This is the only social media I use anymore and while I still may drop it, and while I still do occasionally check my karma after posting, it’s easily the most rewarding social media experience I’ve dealt with given the concentration of talent; and the emphasis on quality, interesting content. You’re not wrong of course, but it feels a bit exaggerated.
- mumblemumble 5y ago
  For my part, HN is the only thing like social media I still use. (Though I'm deliberately not counting things like irc and discord.) And now that I've been off social media long enough for my baselines to shift, I'm realizing I have some similar problems here, too. There's a difference in magnitude, of course, but not so much in form. So, yeah, you're absolutely right. And lately I've been actively considering canceling my subscription and spending more time just reading books.
- Der_Einzige 5y ago
  I think HN is actually worse, as the "approval" you get here is ostensibly from peers and folks that one may think are "just like them". It's easy to brush off not being approved by random Karen's on Facebook but far harder to accept PG or someone like him calling you a loser...
  - offtop5 5y ago
    I'd be a bit honored if a billionaire took the time to insult me. Most successful people tend to be a bit above that. I enjoy HN since the discourse here tends to be fairly intelligent. I've already gained a great deal of very valuable information from this site
- cronix 5y ago
  > HN, the not-social media, does not even have a concept of likes. Call em what you want, but upvotes/downvotes are in the same sphere as likes. Being downvoted into oblivion has the same mental effect as no likes or dislikes on other platforms, despite not being a 1:1 algorithm (1 upvote on HN does not necessarily equate to +1 in your karma) and even if you're the only one that can see them.
  - feudalism 5y ago
    I think the person you're replying to may have been sarcastic in their comment because all those things they mentioned do exist in some form on HN. Without those things, HN would not have the same allure as it does now. Of course upvotes/downvotes are a core part of HN; they even have a leaderboard. At least one particular "eccentric" character tends to boast about being on it as if it's a status symbol (which it may very well be, particularly if you're frequent on HN). One advantage with HN over reddit is that buffoonery is generally not rewarded.
- Workaccount2 5y ago
  I get that HN is still social media, but the level of sludge here is at least an order of magnitude less than general reddit, and probably way better than twitter (I could never get into twitter despite trying my best). To me HN is the final hold out of the old social news sphere. Geeky computer nerds with inflated egos having (mostly) geeky computer nerd discussions. That doesn't sound like much, but at least the average IQ is higher than room temperature and knowledgeable discussion is more popular than puns.

MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago

At the very least it'd help with the US's vanity complex. My whole life as a kid prior to social media was just "live." Post social media, now I borderline need to make a post here and there to prove I'm not a schizoid.

simonswords82 5y ago
Screw that - don't let the people on the Internet live rent free in your head. You don't have to post to prove anything.
- MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
  You don't, but depending on your age, it certainly can help. Sometimes being a socialite can do more for you than just caring about money and privacy.

defaultname 5y ago

I recently created a Twitter account after ignoring the platform for years. I'm pretty well known and have had several significant presences online, but I didn't try to leverage any of that and wanted to see if the network had matured to the point that it is decaying (where it is just cemented into a core). I commented on various tweets. Left thoughtful tweets of my own on a variety of topics. Zero political tweets, but rather participated in the tech sphere including some niche realms. Zero engagement after months. I realized later that some of my comments were hidden under "see more" for other users -- even where I added a helpful comment to a person who themselves had double-digit followers, and where there were only a tiny handful of other comments. My tweets would get hundreds of views (maybe all scrapers), but no one is going to be the first to like some comment by some tiny account with a handful of "followers". So it sits there in Pathetic Valley. It's the curse of social networks. They get their long tail cemented in and pretty soon it's better for everyone else to wait for it to die and join something new. I deleted my twitter account and moved on. When Twitter's replacement comes along I'll get in on day one, copy some jokes some other people make and leave trite cynical comments and by month 2 I'll be a superstar. I feel like Instagram might be taking a stab at dealing with that, rather than some concern over mental health. When everyone new faces Pathetic Valley (unless they're going to buy followers, or go on a desperate campaign outside of the platform to foment engagement), it's the inevitable decline of the platform.