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This seems to be some kind of mistake, yes. Having a look at what younger relatives are doing for likes and how important recognition and appreciation by frien

This seems to be some kind of mistake, yes. Having a look at what younger relatives are doing for likes and how important recognition and appreciation by friends in social media is for them, I find it hard to believe that there's "little association" when things don't go as planned.

dragonwriter 5y ago
> Having a look at what younger relatives are doing for likes and how important recognition and appreciation by friends in social media is for them, I find it hard to believe that there's "little association" when things don't go as planned. But...that’s how older generations have always responded to what younger people do for social approval, and older people interpreting what they see that way as a precipitous decline since their own youth is one of the oldest clichés possibly as old as civilization. > I find it hard to believe that there's "little association" when things don't go as planned. Maybe, but maybe that is just as true independent of digital engagement.
- coldtea 5y ago
  >But...that’s how older generations have always responded to what younger people do for social approval That's a combination of (a) a relatively modern myth ("It was always that way"), (b) a cherry-picking from millenia for instances where that did happen (which wasn't "always" - many periods, even for centuries on end, had almost no change between generations regarding lifestyles. For some rural places that was even true for millenia.). (c) from the cherry-picked cases where it did happen, ignoring the subset that it was also a totally valid criticism (e.g. in the decline of golden-era Athens or the fall of Rome, or the Weimar Republic), when the change in culture and attitudes eventually killed the community/city/republic.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > many periods, even for centuries on end, had almost no change between generations regarding lifestyles Many of the instances where we have records of this being a recurring complaint of adults toward the youth were in those times of little apparent lifestyle change; part of that ia that the distance of our perspective probably minimizes changes that were perceived as significant in the local context, but a bigger part is that, while objective changes in lifestyle or technology can provide something to tie the complaint to, the main driver of the complaint is not the change in society but the change in the observer’s position and perspective within society.
- martin_a 5y ago
  As already written in the other comment: I find this result hard to believe because I think the offline experiences former generations had, would transer to online generations, too. But yes, the youth is always terrible. I've read that in the Hagakure, but I think it has already been mentioned/been a "fact" in ancient Greece, too. ;-)
coddle-hark 5y ago
Young people have pretty much always optimised for the recognition and appreciation of their friends though. It’s just more visible to adults now, which is probably a good thing.
- martin_a 5y ago
  Totally, yes. Just thought about how badly I wanted to be one of the cool kids in school. Failed terribly in doing that, and I also know how terrible I felt about that. That's why I'm wondering when the whole "seeking for appreciation"-thing has moved from real life to Instagram (kind of), are there no bad feelings, feelings of rejection and failure involved, when my new post doesn't get the likes I'm looking for?
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > It’s just more visible to adults now Its always been visible to adults and has been a perennial complaint of adults about the youth.
- have_faith 5y ago
  The big difference is opportunity time. Previously you had occasional opportunities to impress your peers and evaluate their lives against yours giving you gaps to work between. Those gaps now no longer exist. The information and comparison is 24/7 and real time. I think comparisons to previous generations as being equal in goals vastly over simplifies vast differences in the landscape they operate in.

dragonwriter 5y ago

> Having a look at what younger relatives are doing for likes and how important recognition and appreciation by friends in social media is for them, I find it hard to believe that there's "little association" when things don't go as planned. But...that’s how older generations have always responded to what younger people do for social approval, and older people interpreting what they see that way as a precipitous decline since their own youth is one of the oldest clichés possibly as old as civilization. > I find it hard to believe that there's "little association" when things don't go as planned. Maybe, but maybe that is just as true independent of digital engagement.

coldtea 5y ago
>But...that’s how older generations have always responded to what younger people do for social approval That's a combination of (a) a relatively modern myth ("It was always that way"), (b) a cherry-picking from millenia for instances where that did happen (which wasn't "always" - many periods, even for centuries on end, had almost no change between generations regarding lifestyles. For some rural places that was even true for millenia.). (c) from the cherry-picked cases where it did happen, ignoring the subset that it was also a totally valid criticism (e.g. in the decline of golden-era Athens or the fall of Rome, or the Weimar Republic), when the change in culture and attitudes eventually killed the community/city/republic.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > many periods, even for centuries on end, had almost no change between generations regarding lifestyles Many of the instances where we have records of this being a recurring complaint of adults toward the youth were in those times of little apparent lifestyle change; part of that ia that the distance of our perspective probably minimizes changes that were perceived as significant in the local context, but a bigger part is that, while objective changes in lifestyle or technology can provide something to tie the complaint to, the main driver of the complaint is not the change in society but the change in the observer’s position and perspective within society.
martin_a 5y ago
As already written in the other comment: I find this result hard to believe because I think the offline experiences former generations had, would transer to online generations, too. But yes, the youth is always terrible. I've read that in the Hagakure, but I think it has already been mentioned/been a "fact" in ancient Greece, too. ;-)

coddle-hark 5y ago

Young people have pretty much always optimised for the recognition and appreciation of their friends though. It’s just more visible to adults now, which is probably a good thing.

martin_a 5y ago
Totally, yes. Just thought about how badly I wanted to be one of the cool kids in school. Failed terribly in doing that, and I also know how terrible I felt about that. That's why I'm wondering when the whole "seeking for appreciation"-thing has moved from real life to Instagram (kind of), are there no bad feelings, feelings of rejection and failure involved, when my new post doesn't get the likes I'm looking for?
dragonwriter 5y ago
> It’s just more visible to adults now Its always been visible to adults and has been a perennial complaint of adults about the youth.
have_faith 5y ago
The big difference is opportunity time. Previously you had occasional opportunities to impress your peers and evaluate their lives against yours giving you gaps to work between. Those gaps now no longer exist. The information and comparison is 24/7 and real time. I think comparisons to previous generations as being equal in goals vastly over simplifies vast differences in the landscape they operate in.