4 ms·

What about Ireland? How did Ireland's stance during the war, shape its policies post war?

by publicola1990 5y ago

dmurray 5y ago
Ireland was officially neutral but unofficially pro-British. Ireland shared military and meteorological intelligence with London and allowed British warplanes to use Irish airspace. German pilots were interned while British ones were returned home. After the war, and up to the 21st century, Ireland courted foreign investment and was rewarded by being favourably looked upon by Britain and especially the US. Ireland received some limited Marshall Plan aid, but was frozen out of the United Nations for a few years (probably by the Soviets). I would say Irish foreign policy is still shaped in the same way. The military doesn't participate in foreign wars, outside some UN peacekeeping missions. But US-aligned forces are generally welcome, even on torture missions, and Ireland officially supports the US stance on Israel despite occasionally wringing its hands at the plight of the Palestinians, who the Irish people tend to sympathise with.
- soneil 5y ago
  My favourite trivia on this topic is an interesting take on neutrality. POWs - generally shipwrecked sailors or downed airmen - were treated pretty well. Which makes sense, they weren't POWs as we'd usually think of them, but just that Ireland wasn't handing combatants back. As part of being treated pretty well, they were allowed out on day release, and able to cycle in to town. Well, you can cycle to the UK (NI) from the freestate, but you can't cycle to Germany ..
- rkachowski 5y ago
  My grandfather was a British pilot interned in an Irish camp during WW2. They weren't allowed to return home / escape (they'd be sent back after crossing the sea), but they were given "day passes" to leave the camp pretty much every day. Despite officially being a prisoner he had a motorcycle in a nearby town and there are quite a few photos of him riding around. Before he died he was consulted by some producers for a (pretty bad) movie based on the subject - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brylcreem_Boys https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brylcreem_Boys
  - peeters 5y ago
    > They weren't allowed to return home / escape (they'd be sent back after crossing the sea) Wait I'm sorry, if a British prisoner escaped Ireland and made it to Britain, the British government would send the prisoner back to Ireland? What reason would they have to do that?
    - qw 5y ago
      https://forthelifeofme-film.com/2019/07/30/the-most-bizarre-pow-camp-during-wwii-curragh/ https://forthelifeofme-film.com/2019/07/30/the-most-bizarre-... "Having negligible military power, Ireland was a neutral nation during the war; Prime Minister Éamon de Valera went to great lengths to maintain that neutrality. As part of this policy, he made a deal with both the British and German governments: combatants of either country could be detained if found in Ireland and interned there for the duration of the war." "Technically, the men were not prisoners of war but “guests of the State,” with an obligation on the state to prevent them from returning to the war." "The reason was that Ireland’s neutrality was important not only to the Irish but to Great Britain as well. Though Churchill considered Ireland’s refusal to fight a betrayal, he understood that a pro-Nazi Ireland would have allowed the Kriegsmarine to use its Atlantic ports and wreak havoc on vital convoys from America."
      - peeters 5y ago
        But where does that say that the British would send Brits back to Ireland? Edit: The article mentions a single example of an escapee being sent back from Northern Ireland, not GB. > He had lunch at a nearby hotel, left without paying and made his way to nearby Dublin, where he boarded the first train to Belfast in Northern Ireland. To his surprise, his superiors were far from pleased when he reported at his base and he was quickly sent back across the border to the internment camp. It seems like the emphasis was on whether the escape came about from (perceived) Irish apathy or as a "legitimate" escape attempt. The Brits would return a prisoner who violated the terms of their day parole, but not those who legitimately escaped.

What about Ireland? How did Ireland's stance during the war, shape its policies post war?

Ireland was officially neutral but unofficially pro-British. Ireland shared military and meteorological intelligence with London and allowed British warplanes to use Irish airspace. German pilots were interned while British ones were returned home. After the war, and up to the 21st century, Ireland courted foreign investment and was rewarded by being favourably looked upon by Britain and especially the US. Ireland received some limited Marshall Plan aid, but was frozen out of the United Nations for a few years (probably by the Soviets). I would say Irish foreign policy is still shaped in the same way. The military doesn't participate in foreign wars, outside some UN peacekeeping missions. But US-aligned forces are generally welcome, even on torture missions, and Ireland officially supports the US stance on Israel despite occasionally wringing its hands at the plight of the Palestinians, who the Irish people tend to sympathise with.

soneil 5y ago
My favourite trivia on this topic is an interesting take on neutrality. POWs - generally shipwrecked sailors or downed airmen - were treated pretty well. Which makes sense, they weren't POWs as we'd usually think of them, but just that Ireland wasn't handing combatants back. As part of being treated pretty well, they were allowed out on day release, and able to cycle in to town. Well, you can cycle to the UK (NI) from the freestate, but you can't cycle to Germany ..
rkachowski 5y ago
My grandfather was a British pilot interned in an Irish camp during WW2. They weren't allowed to return home / escape (they'd be sent back after crossing the sea), but they were given "day passes" to leave the camp pretty much every day. Despite officially being a prisoner he had a motorcycle in a nearby town and there are quite a few photos of him riding around. Before he died he was consulted by some producers for a (pretty bad) movie based on the subject - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brylcreem_Boys https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brylcreem_Boys
- peeters 5y ago
  > They weren't allowed to return home / escape (they'd be sent back after crossing the sea) Wait I'm sorry, if a British prisoner escaped Ireland and made it to Britain, the British government would send the prisoner back to Ireland? What reason would they have to do that?
  - qw 5y ago
    https://forthelifeofme-film.com/2019/07/30/the-most-bizarre-pow-camp-during-wwii-curragh/ https://forthelifeofme-film.com/2019/07/30/the-most-bizarre-... "Having negligible military power, Ireland was a neutral nation during the war; Prime Minister Éamon de Valera went to great lengths to maintain that neutrality. As part of this policy, he made a deal with both the British and German governments: combatants of either country could be detained if found in Ireland and interned there for the duration of the war." "Technically, the men were not prisoners of war but “guests of the State,” with an obligation on the state to prevent them from returning to the war." "The reason was that Ireland’s neutrality was important not only to the Irish but to Great Britain as well. Though Churchill considered Ireland’s refusal to fight a betrayal, he understood that a pro-Nazi Ireland would have allowed the Kriegsmarine to use its Atlantic ports and wreak havoc on vital convoys from America."
    - peeters 5y ago
      But where does that say that the British would send Brits back to Ireland? Edit: The article mentions a single example of an escapee being sent back from Northern Ireland, not GB. > He had lunch at a nearby hotel, left without paying and made his way to nearby Dublin, where he boarded the first train to Belfast in Northern Ireland. To his surprise, his superiors were far from pleased when he reported at his base and he was quickly sent back across the border to the internment camp. It seems like the emphasis was on whether the escape came about from (perceived) Irish apathy or as a "legitimate" escape attempt. The Brits would return a prisoner who violated the terms of their day parole, but not those who legitimately escaped.