4 ms·

> A cordless handheld drill is hardly a tool that most people would call 'hazardous'. You turn the trigger, the thing rotates, grab the chuck and you can likely

> A cordless handheld drill is hardly a tool that most people would call 'hazardous'. You turn the trigger, the thing rotates, grab the chuck and you can likely stall it. But that much energy in something driven by code is extremely dangerous, it's waiting for any of who knows how many conditions to take off, a common one is that putting your hands in/on something that seems to be not moving can 'make' a sensor and the machine will take off. A friend needed a valve cover gasket changed on his Honda, and his wife needed to use the car for her Uber runs that night. He came over and instead of our usual hand tools I put a socket adapter on my 20V drill to speed up disassembly. I handed the drill to him and told him "start on the lowest torque setting, and move up in small steps." I turned around to grab more tools from the toolbox. A minute later, I heard a loud noise. I turned to see the car's windshield cracked and a shocked look on my friend's face. My friend was used to his renter's power drill. He hadn't anticipated how much torque a modern contractor's drill outputs and set the torque to the maximum setting. On the third valve cover bolt, the drill had caught on the bolt head and spun my friend around, smashing the battery into the windshield. There's a piece of paper taped to me toolbox called "List of things <friend's name> may not attempt unsupervised." It gained a couple of entries that day...

whatshisface 5y ago
Why would a drill be engineered to put out more torque than a human holding the handle could be expected to counterbalance?
- dharmab 5y ago
  For drilling holes in soft materials like drywall and wood, or even softer metals like aluminum. I recently used that drill to drill into a motorcycle engine to remove a stuck rotor cover. Relevant old article: http://www.team.net/mjb/hawg.html http://www.team.net/mjb/hawg.html
- duskwuff 5y ago
  Powerful electric drills will often come with an extra handle on the side (or a mounting point for one) so that you can brace them with both hands. It's up to the user to set an appropriate torque limit if they're only using one hand.
  - maccard 5y ago
    Using the analogies above, a drill like that could put the trigger on the awkward handle, forcing the operator to use it
    - dharmab 5y ago
      The second handle sometimes needs to be removed to fit into a narrow space. In that case, you set a torque limit and operate the drill with one hand.
      - maccard 5y ago
        That's fair; Maybe you need to hold two triggers, and the torque limit is reduced if you're only operating in "one hand mode"?
- function_seven 5y ago
  I imagine he was leaning over the engine bay, maybe holding the drill in one hand. So in that specific scenario, the tool was more powerful than he could control. But that same drill might be asked to bore a large hole in a piece of wood, and the user would anticipate the amount of leverage they need to control it. Two hands, arms close to body, etc.
- ehnto 5y ago
  They probably could have, had they been ready for it. Not everyone is the same weight and strength either so it could just be that it was out of their physical capabilities. That is often the difference between home and tradesman tools. A tradesman can reasonably be expected to handle a bit more responsibility from their tools than the home handyman.
- hoppla 5y ago
  When I drill 30cm holes in fiberglass or wood, I place my leg next to the handle. That have saved my wrist many times as the tool bites to the material and send the drill in a circular motion.
- Snoozus 5y ago
  Price, there are some fancy battery powered drills that detect the jerk via an accelerometer and reduce the power, but most drills don't have that. for example: https://www.boschtools.com/ca/en/more/news-and-extras/knowledge-center/contentpage_9.html https://www.boschtools.com/ca/en/more/news-and-extras/knowle... For a continuous drilling operation the torque is totally fine, the problem is abrupt changes in torque because of something catching. On drills without this feature that's what the torque limiting clutch is for.
  - mauvehaus 5y ago
    Dunno about Bosch's implementation, but the Milwaukee one sucks. The drill/impact driver would strip the screw head, jerk your wrist, and then cut the power. I'd much rather have a mechanical clutch than than that one. We actually had an older drill with the mechanical clutch with a stripped high gear that we kept around for driving screws instead of tossing because the new one was so bad.
- robocat 5y ago
  An electrician I know broke his wrist with a high torque electric drill - be careful!
- jccooper 5y ago
  The amount of torque you can handle with the drill horizontal and close to the body is rather different than vertical and leaning over an engine bay.
barrkel 5y ago
An impact driver (rattle gun) is much better for speeding up disassembly than a drill. They also don't apply anything like the same feeling of torque to the operator's wrist. A lower power (e.g. 300Nm max) battery driver is great for when you have to undo lots of lower sized bolts, while it would be a little bit underpowered for wheel nuts or motorcycle fork retaining bolts.
- TheSpiceIsLife 5y ago
  Dear Lord please do not put 300Nm on your wheel nuts. They're supposed to tentioned correctly with a torque wrench, usually between about 110 and 120Nm. Edit to add a reference, just random from a search: https://www.barum-tyres.com/car/expert-advice/safety-driving-tips/tightening-wheel-nuts https://www.barum-tyres.com/car/expert-advice/safety-driving...
  - namibj 5y ago
    I think parent was referring to taking wheels off, not torquing the nuts. And for that purpose, it does seem appropriate.
    - TheSpiceIsLife 5y ago
      On second reading I see you may be right. However my point still stands, somewhat: if 300Nm is insufficient to undo your wheelnuts, they're way too tight.
      - dharmab 5y ago
        Let me forward this advice to Mercedes AMG Petronas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUyUA91ILsE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUyUA91ILsE
      - barrkel 5y ago
        You should be introduced to Italian single-sided-swingarm nuts. For example, my MV Agusta Brutale required 220 to 240Nm tightening. It would come loose with my battery-powered 300NM rattle gun, but only after a while. (Fantastic bike but I no longer own it. I'd rent another though.) Ducati single-sided swingarm nuts can be similar, but I have not yet owned a Ducati.
speakspokespok 5y ago
Recently I did what’s called the ‘big 3’ upgrade on my car’s wiring. You replace the oem wiring from your alternator, etc. with 1/0 gauge cable, thus allowing substantially more power through. This is for speakers. I made my own cables and was in the process of upsizing one of the battery lugs by drilling the hole bigger on a drill press. I was just holding the wire steady with my left hand while pulling the drill handle down with my right. The drill bit caught and spun the cable around, including somehow my hand in it, winding my hand up in the cable very tight against the still spinning drill. It’s a small drill press and didn’t have enough torque to keep spinning, but had the drill been stronger I’d have at least broken my hand if not worse. As it was my hand was swollen and scratched pretty good. When you make your living typing this really makes you think.
- myself248 5y ago
  Having had this happen a few times, I'm pretty obsessive about workholding now. It's a shame that a good drill-press vise can cost almost as much as the drill press itself, because it's really important for safety. You should image-search the term "radial drill" sometime. ;)
  - LeifCarrotson 5y ago
    Where are you finding these $30 drill presses? $21: https://www.amazon.com/Irwin-Tools-Drill-Press-226340/dp/B0001LQY4O https://www.amazon.com/Irwin-Tools-Drill-Press-226340/dp/B00... $25: https://www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-jaw-capacity-drill-press-vise-30999.html https://www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-jaw-capacity-drill-pres... You don't need a high-dollar Kurt milling vise for a drill press, and you only need to constrain the part in one degree of freedom (rotation about Z axis). Just put a single fastener in your table and drop the slots in that vise over it. Gravity and quill pressure hold it in Z, the table holds it flat against rotation about X and Y, and you want it to have the ability to slide a bit in X and Y to let the drill find the center of your punch/pilot hole. If the drill catches, the torque will push against the stud and it can't move.

whatshisface 5y ago

Why would a drill be engineered to put out more torque than a human holding the handle could be expected to counterbalance?

dharmab 5y ago
For drilling holes in soft materials like drywall and wood, or even softer metals like aluminum. I recently used that drill to drill into a motorcycle engine to remove a stuck rotor cover. Relevant old article: http://www.team.net/mjb/hawg.html http://www.team.net/mjb/hawg.html
duskwuff 5y ago
Powerful electric drills will often come with an extra handle on the side (or a mounting point for one) so that you can brace them with both hands. It's up to the user to set an appropriate torque limit if they're only using one hand.
- maccard 5y ago
  Using the analogies above, a drill like that could put the trigger on the awkward handle, forcing the operator to use it
  - dharmab 5y ago
    The second handle sometimes needs to be removed to fit into a narrow space. In that case, you set a torque limit and operate the drill with one hand.
    - maccard 5y ago
      That's fair; Maybe you need to hold two triggers, and the torque limit is reduced if you're only operating in "one hand mode"?
function_seven 5y ago
I imagine he was leaning over the engine bay, maybe holding the drill in one hand. So in that specific scenario, the tool was more powerful than he could control. But that same drill might be asked to bore a large hole in a piece of wood, and the user would anticipate the amount of leverage they need to control it. Two hands, arms close to body, etc.
ehnto 5y ago
They probably could have, had they been ready for it. Not everyone is the same weight and strength either so it could just be that it was out of their physical capabilities. That is often the difference between home and tradesman tools. A tradesman can reasonably be expected to handle a bit more responsibility from their tools than the home handyman.
hoppla 5y ago
When I drill 30cm holes in fiberglass or wood, I place my leg next to the handle. That have saved my wrist many times as the tool bites to the material and send the drill in a circular motion.
Snoozus 5y ago
Price, there are some fancy battery powered drills that detect the jerk via an accelerometer and reduce the power, but most drills don't have that. for example: https://www.boschtools.com/ca/en/more/news-and-extras/knowledge-center/contentpage_9.html https://www.boschtools.com/ca/en/more/news-and-extras/knowle... For a continuous drilling operation the torque is totally fine, the problem is abrupt changes in torque because of something catching. On drills without this feature that's what the torque limiting clutch is for.
- mauvehaus 5y ago
  Dunno about Bosch's implementation, but the Milwaukee one sucks. The drill/impact driver would strip the screw head, jerk your wrist, and then cut the power. I'd much rather have a mechanical clutch than than that one. We actually had an older drill with the mechanical clutch with a stripped high gear that we kept around for driving screws instead of tossing because the new one was so bad.
robocat 5y ago
An electrician I know broke his wrist with a high torque electric drill - be careful!
jccooper 5y ago
The amount of torque you can handle with the drill horizontal and close to the body is rather different than vertical and leaning over an engine bay.

barrkel 5y ago

An impact driver (rattle gun) is much better for speeding up disassembly than a drill. They also don't apply anything like the same feeling of torque to the operator's wrist. A lower power (e.g. 300Nm max) battery driver is great for when you have to undo lots of lower sized bolts, while it would be a little bit underpowered for wheel nuts or motorcycle fork retaining bolts.

TheSpiceIsLife 5y ago
Dear Lord please do not put 300Nm on your wheel nuts. They're supposed to tentioned correctly with a torque wrench, usually between about 110 and 120Nm. Edit to add a reference, just random from a search: https://www.barum-tyres.com/car/expert-advice/safety-driving-tips/tightening-wheel-nuts https://www.barum-tyres.com/car/expert-advice/safety-driving...
- namibj 5y ago
  I think parent was referring to taking wheels off, not torquing the nuts. And for that purpose, it does seem appropriate.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 5y ago
    On second reading I see you may be right. However my point still stands, somewhat: if 300Nm is insufficient to undo your wheelnuts, they're way too tight.
    - dharmab 5y ago
      Let me forward this advice to Mercedes AMG Petronas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUyUA91ILsE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUyUA91ILsE
    - barrkel 5y ago
      You should be introduced to Italian single-sided-swingarm nuts. For example, my MV Agusta Brutale required 220 to 240Nm tightening. It would come loose with my battery-powered 300NM rattle gun, but only after a while. (Fantastic bike but I no longer own it. I'd rent another though.) Ducati single-sided swingarm nuts can be similar, but I have not yet owned a Ducati.

speakspokespok 5y ago

Recently I did what’s called the ‘big 3’ upgrade on my car’s wiring. You replace the oem wiring from your alternator, etc. with 1/0 gauge cable, thus allowing substantially more power through. This is for speakers. I made my own cables and was in the process of upsizing one of the battery lugs by drilling the hole bigger on a drill press. I was just holding the wire steady with my left hand while pulling the drill handle down with my right. The drill bit caught and spun the cable around, including somehow my hand in it, winding my hand up in the cable very tight against the still spinning drill. It’s a small drill press and didn’t have enough torque to keep spinning, but had the drill been stronger I’d have at least broken my hand if not worse. As it was my hand was swollen and scratched pretty good. When you make your living typing this really makes you think.

myself248 5y ago
Having had this happen a few times, I'm pretty obsessive about workholding now. It's a shame that a good drill-press vise can cost almost as much as the drill press itself, because it's really important for safety. You should image-search the term "radial drill" sometime. ;)
- LeifCarrotson 5y ago
  Where are you finding these $30 drill presses? $21: https://www.amazon.com/Irwin-Tools-Drill-Press-226340/dp/B0001LQY4O https://www.amazon.com/Irwin-Tools-Drill-Press-226340/dp/B00... $25: https://www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-jaw-capacity-drill-press-vise-30999.html https://www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-jaw-capacity-drill-pres... You don't need a high-dollar Kurt milling vise for a drill press, and you only need to constrain the part in one degree of freedom (rotation about Z axis). Just put a single fastener in your table and drop the slots in that vise over it. Gravity and quill pressure hold it in Z, the table holds it flat against rotation about X and Y, and you want it to have the ability to slide a bit in X and Y to let the drill find the center of your punch/pilot hole. If the drill catches, the torque will push against the stud and it can't move.