4 ms·

Here's an example[1], from his blog post, about the interaction one of these women defined as "creepy". If this is the bar for unacceptable discourse between m

Here's an example[1], from his blog post, about the interaction one of these women defined as "creepy". If this is the bar for unacceptable discourse between men and women, without being a mind-reader, I'm not really sure how one is ever supposed to win. [1] https://www.notion.so/image/https%3A%2F%2Fs3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com%2Fsecure.notion-static.com%2Fea67dec6-4d3f-4ae2-ba1e-4f4d8ed9cd1f%2FCleanShot_2021-02-24_at_17.34.242x.png?table=block&id=424cbc08-a995-4d2c-8348-6a382deef2c0&spaceId=4df35c39-cb11-4523-a7a4-2c68a3fecc57&width=3580&userId=&cache=v2 https://www.notion.so/image/https%3A%2F%2Fs3-us-west-2.amazo...

SavantIdiot 5y ago
That's his receipt. Not hers. Is that really 100% of the interactions they've had? You seem to be pretty confident there's only his side of the story.
- Manuel_D 5y ago
  Then she should share receipt of the alleged creepy messages. The burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused.
  - carabiner 5y ago
    Yeah, the only "evidence" brought by the women are screenshots from anonymous Twitter accounts with no proof they're associated with Pasquale. Surely someone must have a harassing message from the guy? Also, not proud of this, but I used to have a weird troll dating account. I sent weird messages to women that I didn't know, but nothing offensive (to me). I googled my username once and found that someone had thought it was her ex. She posted it on Reddit in an alcoholism subreddit, and anyone in the thread questioning her was then also accused by her of being her ex under an alt. It was insane.
  - cortesoft 5y ago
    Burden of proof for what? To charge him with a crime? Sure. But random people are free to make whatever conclusions about him that they want, with as little or as much evidence as they personally require to render their judgement. You don’t get to tell other people how they should form their opinions. It isn’t fair, but there is no other way for the world to work. Everyone has their own criteria for judging people... we can put legal requirements on some things (like what criteria you can use to determine if you hire someone, or rent them an apartment, or let them into your store), but people are free to dislike someone for whatever reason they want.
    - Manuel_D 5y ago
      > Burden of proof for what? For me to believe their accusations. It's not just something that exists in the courts, it's a principle that many (most?) people adhere to in their lives. If you have one co-worker who accuses the other of stealing their phone, would you punish the accused without first asking how they know they stole it or looking at camera footage of the time of the alleged theft? It's not illegal for you to believe unsubstantiated accusations (not just unsubstantiated, but unsubstantiated in the face of exculpatory evidence). It's not illegal for a boss to fire an employee over an unsubstantiated accusation. Legal, but still harmful to society.
      - cortesoft 5y ago
        Punishment or firing is different than believing or not believing. I agree you should have a higher burden of proof before doing those things. But you are free to believe whatever you want. Personally, I don’t hold a belief either way about this person. I neither believe or disbelieve them.
        fastball 5y ago
        Why don't you believe either way? If the "he's creepy" side had provided their "curated receipts" would you believe them? As it stands, he's provided receipts and the other side hasn't, so for me any reasonable person believes the person with the receipts. And sure, we can't force people to form opinions in one way or another, but we absolutely can (and arguably should) criticize people who form their opinions in a way that is best modeled after a lynch mob, in the exact same way I would react to a... real life lynch mob.
    - MispelledToyota 5y ago
      You can tell someone what good criteria are for wines, why not forming opinions? They're not obligated to listen to you, but I don't get saying that you can't advise. Beyond that though, when our opinions have consequences, we have an obligation to form them carefully when they affect others. Not being able to force someone to behave well doesn't mean there aren't reasonable criteria available for them.
- oh_sigh 5y ago
  How would your perspective change, if it all, if the accuser came forward and said that those were in fact the only DMs exchanged?

SavantIdiot 5y ago

That's his receipt. Not hers. Is that really 100% of the interactions they've had? You seem to be pretty confident there's only his side of the story.

Manuel_D 5y ago
Then she should share receipt of the alleged creepy messages. The burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused.
- carabiner 5y ago
  Yeah, the only "evidence" brought by the women are screenshots from anonymous Twitter accounts with no proof they're associated with Pasquale. Surely someone must have a harassing message from the guy? Also, not proud of this, but I used to have a weird troll dating account. I sent weird messages to women that I didn't know, but nothing offensive (to me). I googled my username once and found that someone had thought it was her ex. She posted it on Reddit in an alcoholism subreddit, and anyone in the thread questioning her was then also accused by her of being her ex under an alt. It was insane.
- cortesoft 5y ago
  Burden of proof for what? To charge him with a crime? Sure. But random people are free to make whatever conclusions about him that they want, with as little or as much evidence as they personally require to render their judgement. You don’t get to tell other people how they should form their opinions. It isn’t fair, but there is no other way for the world to work. Everyone has their own criteria for judging people... we can put legal requirements on some things (like what criteria you can use to determine if you hire someone, or rent them an apartment, or let them into your store), but people are free to dislike someone for whatever reason they want.
  - Manuel_D 5y ago
    > Burden of proof for what? For me to believe their accusations. It's not just something that exists in the courts, it's a principle that many (most?) people adhere to in their lives. If you have one co-worker who accuses the other of stealing their phone, would you punish the accused without first asking how they know they stole it or looking at camera footage of the time of the alleged theft? It's not illegal for you to believe unsubstantiated accusations (not just unsubstantiated, but unsubstantiated in the face of exculpatory evidence). It's not illegal for a boss to fire an employee over an unsubstantiated accusation. Legal, but still harmful to society.
    - cortesoft 5y ago
      Punishment or firing is different than believing or not believing. I agree you should have a higher burden of proof before doing those things. But you are free to believe whatever you want. Personally, I don’t hold a belief either way about this person. I neither believe or disbelieve them.
      - fastball 5y ago
        Why don't you believe either way? If the "he's creepy" side had provided their "curated receipts" would you believe them? As it stands, he's provided receipts and the other side hasn't, so for me any reasonable person believes the person with the receipts. And sure, we can't force people to form opinions in one way or another, but we absolutely can (and arguably should) criticize people who form their opinions in a way that is best modeled after a lynch mob, in the exact same way I would react to a... real life lynch mob.
  - MispelledToyota 5y ago
    You can tell someone what good criteria are for wines, why not forming opinions? They're not obligated to listen to you, but I don't get saying that you can't advise. Beyond that though, when our opinions have consequences, we have an obligation to form them carefully when they affect others. Not being able to force someone to behave well doesn't mean there aren't reasonable criteria available for them.
oh_sigh 5y ago
How would your perspective change, if it all, if the accuser came forward and said that those were in fact the only DMs exchanged?