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And when I last looked at doing certification, the core requirements had literally nothing to do with what I practiced (fluid dynamics for a software engineer?

And when I last looked at doing certification, the core requirements had literally nothing to do with what I practiced (fluid dynamics for a software engineer? Take a hike) It's all a racket. I'm an unlicensed, non-PE software engineer. Am I allowed to call myself that?

Nicksil 5y ago
>It's all a racket. It's not. >I'm an unlicensed, non-PE software engineer. Am I allowed to call myself that? In many areas, yeah, you can refer to yourself as a software engineer, but the title doesn't mean anything because anyone can refer to themselves as a software engineer; there is nothing defining what that means.
- xyzzy_plugh 5y ago
  > but the title doesn't mean anything because anyone can refer to themselves as a software engineer; there is nothing defining what that means. This is incorrect. Check out what the PEO has to say about using "software engineer" as a title: https://www.peo.on.ca/public-protection/complaints-and-illegal-practice/report-unlicensed-individuals-or-companies-2#software https://www.peo.on.ca/public-protection/complaints-and-illeg... You can sometimes use the title without being licensed, but you have to be careful, as it can easily be considered misrepresentation.
  - Nicksil 5y ago
    >This is incorrect. Check out what the PEO has to say about using "software engineer" as a title Which is why I qualified my statement with "many". >You can sometimes use the title without being licensed, but you have to be careful, as it can easily be considered misrepresentation. That is what this debate is about.
    - xyzzy_plugh 5y ago
      The parent I replied to was referring to Canada, as am I.
  - TheCoelacanth 5y ago
    > Software engineering is deemed to fall within the practice of professional engineering: > Where the software is used in a product that already falls within the practice of engineering (e.g. elevator controls, nuclear reactor controls, medical equipment such as gamma-ray cameras, etc.); > Where the use of the software poses a risk to life, health, property or the public welfare; and > Where the design or analysis requires the application of engineering principles within the program (e.g. does engineering calculations), meets a requirement of engineering practice (e.g. a fail-safe system), or requires the application of the principles of engineering in its development. In other words, the vast majority of software engineering does not fall within the practice of professional engineering.
glitchc 5y ago
It's not a racket. Rather it means that you have not undergone the training that an engineer in Canada had undergone. The term Engineer is not protected, but the term "Professional Engineer" is. If you call yourself a Professional Engineer without a license, the provincial engineering organization is within grounds to fine you and issue a court order to cease the use of the term. The engineering council makes it easy to get the license. Demonstrate the knowledge through a raft of exams and you will qualify. Alternatively, demonstrating 20 years of engineering experience in your field will also let you qualify.
- xyzzy_plugh 5y ago
  I'm a professional software engineer. I practice software engineering as my profession. Am I not allowed to call myself that? Also, I have in fact undergone the training that an engineer in Canada would undergo. I just didn't do the tests or pay the fees, and why should I?
  - glitchc 5y ago
    Would you ask this question as a chartered accountant? A lawyer? An actuary? If you already have the education and the experience (you need both), why not complete the ethics exam and earn the license? Is it about the fees? The annual fee in California is $180.00 [1]. The annual fee in Ontario, Canada is $299.45 [2]. Does your company not pay you enough? Are you living on hardship as a software engineer to not be able to afford that? The real question is this: Why do you feel entitled to a designation without completing the requirements for it? [1] https://bpelsg.ca.gov/applicants/licensee_fees.shtml https://bpelsg.ca.gov/applicants/licensee_fees.shtml [2] https://www.peo.on.ca/sites/default/files/2020-11/PEO-FeeSchedule-Nov2020.pdf https://www.peo.on.ca/sites/default/files/2020-11/PEO-FeeSch...
    - true_religion 5y ago
      Well, yeah. You can call yourself a lawyer even if you aren’t licensed to practice law. Many politicians still call themselves lawyers but they only practiced for a year or two out of college. Similarly, Doctors are still doctors even when they cross borders. They just can’t practice medicine for money without a license.

Nicksil 5y ago

>It's all a racket. It's not. >I'm an unlicensed, non-PE software engineer. Am I allowed to call myself that? In many areas, yeah, you can refer to yourself as a software engineer, but the title doesn't mean anything because anyone can refer to themselves as a software engineer; there is nothing defining what that means.

xyzzy_plugh 5y ago
> but the title doesn't mean anything because anyone can refer to themselves as a software engineer; there is nothing defining what that means. This is incorrect. Check out what the PEO has to say about using "software engineer" as a title: https://www.peo.on.ca/public-protection/complaints-and-illegal-practice/report-unlicensed-individuals-or-companies-2#software https://www.peo.on.ca/public-protection/complaints-and-illeg... You can sometimes use the title without being licensed, but you have to be careful, as it can easily be considered misrepresentation.
- Nicksil 5y ago
  >This is incorrect. Check out what the PEO has to say about using "software engineer" as a title Which is why I qualified my statement with "many". >You can sometimes use the title without being licensed, but you have to be careful, as it can easily be considered misrepresentation. That is what this debate is about.
  - xyzzy_plugh 5y ago
    The parent I replied to was referring to Canada, as am I.
- TheCoelacanth 5y ago
  > Software engineering is deemed to fall within the practice of professional engineering: > Where the software is used in a product that already falls within the practice of engineering (e.g. elevator controls, nuclear reactor controls, medical equipment such as gamma-ray cameras, etc.); > Where the use of the software poses a risk to life, health, property or the public welfare; and > Where the design or analysis requires the application of engineering principles within the program (e.g. does engineering calculations), meets a requirement of engineering practice (e.g. a fail-safe system), or requires the application of the principles of engineering in its development. In other words, the vast majority of software engineering does not fall within the practice of professional engineering.

glitchc 5y ago

It's not a racket. Rather it means that you have not undergone the training that an engineer in Canada had undergone. The term Engineer is not protected, but the term "Professional Engineer" is. If you call yourself a Professional Engineer without a license, the provincial engineering organization is within grounds to fine you and issue a court order to cease the use of the term. The engineering council makes it easy to get the license. Demonstrate the knowledge through a raft of exams and you will qualify. Alternatively, demonstrating 20 years of engineering experience in your field will also let you qualify.

xyzzy_plugh 5y ago
I'm a professional software engineer. I practice software engineering as my profession. Am I not allowed to call myself that? Also, I have in fact undergone the training that an engineer in Canada would undergo. I just didn't do the tests or pay the fees, and why should I?
- glitchc 5y ago
  Would you ask this question as a chartered accountant? A lawyer? An actuary? If you already have the education and the experience (you need both), why not complete the ethics exam and earn the license? Is it about the fees? The annual fee in California is $180.00 [1]. The annual fee in Ontario, Canada is $299.45 [2]. Does your company not pay you enough? Are you living on hardship as a software engineer to not be able to afford that? The real question is this: Why do you feel entitled to a designation without completing the requirements for it? [1] https://bpelsg.ca.gov/applicants/licensee_fees.shtml https://bpelsg.ca.gov/applicants/licensee_fees.shtml [2] https://www.peo.on.ca/sites/default/files/2020-11/PEO-FeeSchedule-Nov2020.pdf https://www.peo.on.ca/sites/default/files/2020-11/PEO-FeeSch...
  - true_religion 5y ago
    Well, yeah. You can call yourself a lawyer even if you aren’t licensed to practice law. Many politicians still call themselves lawyers but they only practiced for a year or two out of college. Similarly, Doctors are still doctors even when they cross borders. They just can’t practice medicine for money without a license.