5 ms·

The Nintendo Switch can be bricked if you use the wrong cable, although my understanding is that it's not built to the USB-C spec: https://www.reddit.com/r/Nint

by koube 5y ago

The Nintendo Switch can be bricked if you use the wrong cable, although my understanding is that it's not built to the USB-C spec: https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/87vmud/the_switch_is_not_usbc_compliant_and_overdraws/ https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/87vmud/the_... Either way, this is an incredibly common device that can be damaged by incompatible hardware where it's difficult to determine compatibility without bricking the device.

fouric 5y ago
> it's difficult to determine compatibility without bricking the device This is the problem! This is what everybody talking about the specs doesn't get - it's difficult to (1) tell which spec a device claims to support and (2) verify that it actually supports it (see: a lot of cheap devices on Amazon) and also (3) in real life many devices do not support the specs (i.e. this isn't a theoretical problem).
- vokep 5y ago
  Unless I'm mistaken, there is a license to call a port a USB port, though goods are commonly sold without that. In theory the solution is simple: only buy products that have the actual USB logo and ensure certification, and the USB-IF should retain the right to significantly fine any manufacturer advertising being to spec and using the logo who is in fact not. In practice, people aren't going to stop buying nintendo switches, unfortunately. Still, its not entirely necessary to support all specs or have that be entirely clear, what does need to be clear is if you can expect safety specs to be followed. If I plug in my nintendo switch to a charger thinking it'll charge at lightspeed but it takes hours, oh well. If I plug it in and it destroys the device then that should be pretty much an unforgivable problem. Personally I'd be happy to abstain from buying such a device due to that, though also personally I did buy one, expecting no issues, and only found out months later when seeing it mentioned somewhere online. Ideally research is done on every product to ensure things like this aren't the case, but again in practice, that doesn't always happen. I'm not sure what the fix is, other than outright making USB not so universal by requiring a license for any and all vendors using the design, if the license is cheap enough, maybe that could work? I don't know the legalities so much but maybe a free license could be required for any implementation, which would only have the spec of "make sure it doesn't brick charger or device, and make sure it doesn't catch on fire"
  - TheSpiceIsLife 5y ago
    One solution could be to require different connectors for different protocols and power delivery. I'm beginning to suspect The Great Filter is Jony Ive's minimalist design influence: any sufficiently advanced culture will annihilate itself before it discovers interstellar travel when someone connects two devices together that aren't compatible with the equivalent of a One True Connector™ USB cable.
    - sgtnoodle 5y ago
      I like to imagine there's an alien species zipping around in FTL space ships, and the only difference from us is they picked one endianness and ran with it.
  - dotancohen 5y ago
    > only buy products that have the actual USB logo I just took my Samsung A50 out of the case, no USB logo anywhere on the device. There's the Samsung logo, some recycling logo and a CE logo, and that's it.
chimeracoder 5y ago
> Either way, this is an incredibly common device that can be damaged by incompatible hardware where it's difficult to determine compatibility without bricking the device. This is 100% Nintendo's fault for using the USB-C connector type but not actually bothering to adhere to the USB-C specification.
- mjevans 5y ago
  It would be OK if they didn't claim to be complaint, and FAILED SAFELY when used with complaint devices. The issue is that they're both not compliant AND fail in a non-safe bad way.
  - chimeracoder 5y ago
    IMO the issue is that they fail unsafe, whether or not they claim compliance. Nintendo doesn't claim compliance, but if they're using the connector shape, it should comply with the spec for power delivery (which is honestly not even hard to do).
  - notatoad 5y ago
    again though, this is bad but not a flaw in usb-c. a manufacturer created a device that violates the spec. MicroUSB devices can also be bricked by using non-conforming cables and power adapters, but fortunately devices like that are rare because the spec has existed long enough that all the bad devices have been flushed out of the market. manufacturers having made stupid decisions in the past does not mean we shouldn't make USB-C better now.
    - tremon 5y ago
      It absolutely is a flaw in usb-c that a large manufacturer can create a device that violates the spec and not face serious repercussions.
- mortenjorck 5y ago
  Exactly. If you're going to base your interconnect on an industry standard, you have two options as far as I'm concerned: A) Follow the spec B) Make your off-spec interconnect physically incompatible with standard devices Going off-spec with a compatible and physically indistinguishable connector is an "attractive nuisance," to use the tort term.
evilduck 5y ago
Is this actually a current problem? I haven't heard of this issue occurring at all in recent years beyond "better safe than sorry" warnings against it when people still ask, and even the original claims didn't seem especially widespread. While it's anecdotal, I've been charging Switches in my household with all sorts of USB-C sources for a couple years now as well (20W Apple chargers, 18W Anker bricks, a MacBook Air, external battery packs, 12v car adapters, etc) and they're all still working.

by koube 5y ago

fouric 5y ago

> it's difficult to determine compatibility without bricking the device This is the problem! This is what everybody talking about the specs doesn't get - it's difficult to (1) tell which spec a device claims to support and (2) verify that it actually supports it (see: a lot of cheap devices on Amazon) and also (3) in real life many devices do not support the specs (i.e. this isn't a theoretical problem).

vokep 5y ago
Unless I'm mistaken, there is a license to call a port a USB port, though goods are commonly sold without that. In theory the solution is simple: only buy products that have the actual USB logo and ensure certification, and the USB-IF should retain the right to significantly fine any manufacturer advertising being to spec and using the logo who is in fact not. In practice, people aren't going to stop buying nintendo switches, unfortunately. Still, its not entirely necessary to support all specs or have that be entirely clear, what does need to be clear is if you can expect safety specs to be followed. If I plug in my nintendo switch to a charger thinking it'll charge at lightspeed but it takes hours, oh well. If I plug it in and it destroys the device then that should be pretty much an unforgivable problem. Personally I'd be happy to abstain from buying such a device due to that, though also personally I did buy one, expecting no issues, and only found out months later when seeing it mentioned somewhere online. Ideally research is done on every product to ensure things like this aren't the case, but again in practice, that doesn't always happen. I'm not sure what the fix is, other than outright making USB not so universal by requiring a license for any and all vendors using the design, if the license is cheap enough, maybe that could work? I don't know the legalities so much but maybe a free license could be required for any implementation, which would only have the spec of "make sure it doesn't brick charger or device, and make sure it doesn't catch on fire"
- TheSpiceIsLife 5y ago
  One solution could be to require different connectors for different protocols and power delivery. I'm beginning to suspect The Great Filter is Jony Ive's minimalist design influence: any sufficiently advanced culture will annihilate itself before it discovers interstellar travel when someone connects two devices together that aren't compatible with the equivalent of a One True Connector™ USB cable.
  - sgtnoodle 5y ago
    I like to imagine there's an alien species zipping around in FTL space ships, and the only difference from us is they picked one endianness and ran with it.
- dotancohen 5y ago
  > only buy products that have the actual USB logo I just took my Samsung A50 out of the case, no USB logo anywhere on the device. There's the Samsung logo, some recycling logo and a CE logo, and that's it.

chimeracoder 5y ago

> Either way, this is an incredibly common device that can be damaged by incompatible hardware where it's difficult to determine compatibility without bricking the device. This is 100% Nintendo's fault for using the USB-C connector type but not actually bothering to adhere to the USB-C specification.

mjevans 5y ago
It would be OK if they didn't claim to be complaint, and FAILED SAFELY when used with complaint devices. The issue is that they're both not compliant AND fail in a non-safe bad way.
- chimeracoder 5y ago
  IMO the issue is that they fail unsafe, whether or not they claim compliance. Nintendo doesn't claim compliance, but if they're using the connector shape, it should comply with the spec for power delivery (which is honestly not even hard to do).
- notatoad 5y ago
  again though, this is bad but not a flaw in usb-c. a manufacturer created a device that violates the spec. MicroUSB devices can also be bricked by using non-conforming cables and power adapters, but fortunately devices like that are rare because the spec has existed long enough that all the bad devices have been flushed out of the market. manufacturers having made stupid decisions in the past does not mean we shouldn't make USB-C better now.
  - tremon 5y ago
    It absolutely is a flaw in usb-c that a large manufacturer can create a device that violates the spec and not face serious repercussions.
mortenjorck 5y ago
Exactly. If you're going to base your interconnect on an industry standard, you have two options as far as I'm concerned: A) Follow the spec B) Make your off-spec interconnect physically incompatible with standard devices Going off-spec with a compatible and physically indistinguishable connector is an "attractive nuisance," to use the tort term.

evilduck 5y ago

Is this actually a current problem? I haven't heard of this issue occurring at all in recent years beyond "better safe than sorry" warnings against it when people still ask, and even the original claims didn't seem especially widespread. While it's anecdotal, I've been charging Switches in my household with all sorts of USB-C sources for a couple years now as well (20W Apple chargers, 18W Anker bricks, a MacBook Air, external battery packs, 12v car adapters, etc) and they're all still working.