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I asked you for a reliable source for your claim, not more fantastical ranting. In the meantime, you might want to look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holod

I asked you for a reliable source for your claim, not more fantastical ranting. In the meantime, you might want to look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_economic_reform https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_economic_reform https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiaogang,_Anhui https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiaogang,_Anhui > In December 1978, eighteen of the local farmers, led by Yen Jingchang, met in the largest house in the village. They agreed to break the law at the time by signing a secret agreement to divide the land, a local People's Commune, into family plots. Each plot was to be worked by an individual family who would turn over some of what they grew to the government and the collective whilst at the same time agreeing that they could keep the surplus for themselves. The villagers also agreed that should one of them be caught and sentenced to death that the other villagers would raise their children until they were eighteen years old. At the time, the villagers were worried that another famine might strike the village after a particularly bad harvest and more people might die of hunger. > After this secret capitalist reform, Xiaogang village produced a harvest that was larger than the previous five years combined. Per capita income in the village increase from 22 yuan to 400 yuan with grain output increasing to 90,000 kg in 1979. This attracted significant attention from surrounding villages and before long the government in Beijing had found out. The villagers were fortunate in that at the time China had just changed leadership after Mao Zedong had died. The new leadership under Deng Xiaoping was looking for ways to reform China's economy and the discovery of Xiaogang's innovation was held up as a model to other villages across the country. This led to the abandonment of collectivised farming across China and a large increase in agricultural production. The secret signing of the contract in Xiaogang is widely regarded as the beginning of the period of rapid economic growth and industrialisation that mainland China has experienced in the thirty years since. It's well past time to face the facts: Capitalism raises standards of living. Socialism impoverishes. > Poor countries are kept poor in order to exploit cheap resources and labour, which enrich a few in the rich countries. Complete nonsense. Poor countries with liberal economies grow fastest and see the most dramatic drops in absolute poverty. No one benefits more from free trade than poor countries. > Millions die every year due to poverty, through lack of clean water, lack of food, disease, etc. And they die at a higher rate under socialism than capitalism. > In many cases the two go together, like the starving of Yemen. The attacks against Iraq or Libya or Syria are also good examples. It only takes a few years to get to 100 million if you add all of that up. What does this have to do with capitalism? Capitalism means https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_economy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_economy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_liberalization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_liberalization > The slave trade was essential to the initial accumulation of capital. Slavery isn't capitalist. And it more aptly describes the conditions of those who live under socialist regimes. > Later on the invasions of Korea or Vietnam, etc. Are you referring to the Communist invasions launched by North Korea and North Vietnam against their southern counterparts?

lucian1900 5y ago
Do you need me to provide you a source for how many die because they lack clean water? Or how many Iraqis were killed by the invasion? Surely it’s easy enough to find.
- alentist 5y ago
  You need to provide a reliable source for your fantastical claim that "capitalism’s death toll far exceeds 100 million". You're trying to deflect because you don't have one.
  - lucian1900 5y ago
    There are various studies putting deaths by poverty in between 2 and 20+ million a year. Just lack of clean water is generally around 8 million. None of these are seriously disputed. Capitalism has existed for long enough to far exceed 100. However to understand that capitalism causes poverty you would need to first understand its mechanisms. I recommend Lenin’s Imperialism if you’re serious about learning.
    - alentist 5y ago
      Economic freedom reduces poverty. https://rd.springer.com/chapter/10.1057/9780230114319_3 https://rd.springer.com/chapter/10.1057/9780230114319_3 > Compared to those that were less free, countries with higher economic freedom ratings during 1980–2005 had lower rates of both extreme and moderate poverty in 2005. More importantly, countries with higher levels of economic freedom in 1980 and larger increases in economic freedom during the 1980s and 1990s achieved larger poverty rate reductions than economies that were less free. These relationships were true even after adjustment for geographic and locational factors and foreign assistance as a share of income. The positive relations between the level and change in economic freedom and reductions in poverty were both statistically significant and robust across alternative specifications. > Some fear that growth propelled by economic freedom will leave the poor behind. This was not the case during 1980–2005. During this quarter of a century, the developing countries that moved the most toward economic freedom achieved both strong economic growth and substantial reductions in poverty. This indicates that an institutional and policy environment consistent with economic freedom is an important ingredient for progress against poverty. https://www.mohrsiebeck.com/en/article/the-relationship-between-economic-freedom-and-poverty-rates-cross-country-evidence-101628jite-2020-0042 https://www.mohrsiebeck.com/en/article/the-relationship-betw... > We study the relationship between economic freedom and poverty rates in 151 countries over a twenty-year period. Using the World Bank's poverty headcounts of those living on less than $1.90 per day, $3.20 per day, and $5.50 per day, we find evidence that economic freedom, measured by the Heritage Foundation's Index of Economic Freedom, is associated with lower poverty rates. We also test the effect of various components of the Index of Economic Freedom. We find that a government's integrity and a country's trade freedom are associated with lower poverty rates. We check the robustness of our results using alternative freedom indices. See also https://cei.org/blog/why-economic-freedom-is-the-best-weapon-against-poverty/ https://cei.org/blog/why-economic-freedom-is-the-best-weapon.... If you're serious about learning, I suggest putting down outdated ideological texts and looking at the actual data.

lucian1900 5y ago

Do you need me to provide you a source for how many die because they lack clean water? Or how many Iraqis were killed by the invasion? Surely it’s easy enough to find.

alentist 5y ago
You need to provide a reliable source for your fantastical claim that "capitalism’s death toll far exceeds 100 million". You're trying to deflect because you don't have one.
- lucian1900 5y ago
  There are various studies putting deaths by poverty in between 2 and 20+ million a year. Just lack of clean water is generally around 8 million. None of these are seriously disputed. Capitalism has existed for long enough to far exceed 100. However to understand that capitalism causes poverty you would need to first understand its mechanisms. I recommend Lenin’s Imperialism if you’re serious about learning.
  - alentist 5y ago
    Economic freedom reduces poverty. https://rd.springer.com/chapter/10.1057/9780230114319_3 https://rd.springer.com/chapter/10.1057/9780230114319_3 > Compared to those that were less free, countries with higher economic freedom ratings during 1980–2005 had lower rates of both extreme and moderate poverty in 2005. More importantly, countries with higher levels of economic freedom in 1980 and larger increases in economic freedom during the 1980s and 1990s achieved larger poverty rate reductions than economies that were less free. These relationships were true even after adjustment for geographic and locational factors and foreign assistance as a share of income. The positive relations between the level and change in economic freedom and reductions in poverty were both statistically significant and robust across alternative specifications. > Some fear that growth propelled by economic freedom will leave the poor behind. This was not the case during 1980–2005. During this quarter of a century, the developing countries that moved the most toward economic freedom achieved both strong economic growth and substantial reductions in poverty. This indicates that an institutional and policy environment consistent with economic freedom is an important ingredient for progress against poverty. https://www.mohrsiebeck.com/en/article/the-relationship-between-economic-freedom-and-poverty-rates-cross-country-evidence-101628jite-2020-0042 https://www.mohrsiebeck.com/en/article/the-relationship-betw... > We study the relationship between economic freedom and poverty rates in 151 countries over a twenty-year period. Using the World Bank's poverty headcounts of those living on less than $1.90 per day, $3.20 per day, and $5.50 per day, we find evidence that economic freedom, measured by the Heritage Foundation's Index of Economic Freedom, is associated with lower poverty rates. We also test the effect of various components of the Index of Economic Freedom. We find that a government's integrity and a country's trade freedom are associated with lower poverty rates. We check the robustness of our results using alternative freedom indices. See also https://cei.org/blog/why-economic-freedom-is-the-best-weapon-against-poverty/ https://cei.org/blog/why-economic-freedom-is-the-best-weapon.... If you're serious about learning, I suggest putting down outdated ideological texts and looking at the actual data.