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Tangentially related, there is a Greek influence on Buddhism in East Asia because Buddhism arrived in China via the Greek Bactrian kingdom. The Buddha as depict

Tangentially related, there is a Greek influence on Buddhism in East Asia because Buddhism arrived in China via the Greek Bactrian kingdom. The Buddha as depicted in East Asia is wearing Greek robes and there are elements of Greek philosophy in Buddhism as practiced in East Asia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Buddhism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Buddhism

tombh 5y ago
Indeed, before the Greeks The Buddha would most commonly only be depicted by his absence, an empty chair or foot prints most famously. It's amazing that the iconography of a religion so ancient and "exotic" is so significantly shaped by European culture.
- routerl 5y ago
  > It's amazing that the iconography of a religion so ancient and "exotic" is so significantly shaped by European culture. It's more an instance of convergence and mutual influence. Hellenistic philosophy (read: immediately after Socrates) went down a few different lines. The one with the largest influence in the West was the Academic line, concerned with empirical observations and theory making. But another major line was about how to live well, and focused primarily on ethics and the virtues. Today, the most well known school in this line is Stoicism, and this approach to philosophy really has a lot of overlap with Buddhism. The Bactrians were extremely well primed to be receptive of some "wisdom from the East" (like the type Pythagoras was supposed to have received) that covered a lot of the same topics as Hellenistic philosophy. By the time Buddhism was meaningfully re-introduced to European academics (starting around the 17th century, but culminating with Schopenhaur in the 19th), several writers once again remarked on the similarities between the Hellenistic and Buddhist traditions.
  - skywal_l 5y ago
    Even the "live well" philosophies were heavily influenced by India. Democritus, the father of antique materialism which lead to Epicurus and Lucretius was heavily influenced by gymnosophists when he traveled to India. Realized this when I was talking about it with an Indian Colleague and when I mention the principals of materialism she immediately recognized elements of her own religion.
    - jbay808 5y ago
      I never realized that Democritus traveled to India. What an amazing journey that must have been.
- asdff 5y ago
  Hellenism is not a strictly European culture. Most of the hellenic world population lived in Africa or the middle east. These were much larger population centers than cities greece, italy, or anywhere else in the European Mediterranean at the time.
  - dukeyukey 5y ago
    Maybe not European by a strict modern geographic interpretation, but ancient Greek culture laid down so many ideas fundamental to the modern West it would be disingenuous to say it isn't European.
    - klyrs 5y ago
      Wouldn't that suggest that Europe is Grecian, and not the other way around?
      - dukeyukey 5y ago
        Maybe, in the same way all adults are just big toddlers. But it discounts the pretty major effect other cultures have had, in the same way describing an adult as a grown-up toddler discounts all the experiences they’ve had in between.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
contingencies 5y ago
Surprised this is the top thread and unchallenged. Buddhism arrived in China via the Greek Bactrian kingdom {{citation-needed}}. Buddhism arrived in the geographic region currently encompassed by the modern Chinese state via multiple routes over more than a thousand years including innumerable exchanges through the overall Tarim Basin (Xinjiang) or "silk road" area via modern Tajikistan, Afghanistan and Pakistan but also via Tibet and by sea through Southeast Asia (Myanmar, Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, and probably some sporadic oceanic contact with South Asia and Buddhist kingdoms in Indonesia). Tajikistan in particular is only slightly archaeologically investigated to date owing to its remote location, poor infrastructure, geopolitical challenges and IIRC the use of mines during 20th century military conflicts. In short, like any other set of ideas it probably arrived in waves of migration, monkly pilgrimages, exchanges, and instances of official diplomacy. There are records of Buddhism being preached to China by the geographically proximal Yuezhi people as early as 2BCE. Classical Chinese history teaches that Buddhism "came to China" in 67CE. Hellenistic artistic styles are, to my knowledge, never mentioned. Buddha as depicted in East Asia is wearing Greek robes The robes are not Greek, they are Buddhist. Buddhism was established in the sixth century BCE. We can read that in Buddhist tradition monks are only allowed a robe and a begging bowl, and that the historical Buddha also set forth a tradition that discouraged iconography as improper worship of likeness (idolatry). This may be because Buddha composed his philosophy in reaction to the prevailing religious environment, where he had previously partaken in such habits which were and remain deeply culturally entrenched. In short, Greco-Buddhist art is influential because it is, in a sense, the first major period with any voluminous production of "Buddhist art" (a notion decidedly not Buddhist), and in any event, the Hellenistic style robes primarily only affects Mahayana art, and the modern geographical scope of China also encompasses an endemic Vajrayana philosophy, Theravada, and Tibetan. Even within Mahayana artistic tradition in China, I don't see how a cursory inspection of - for example - robes depicted at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Buddhist_sculpture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Buddhist_sculpture or https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Buddhist_sculptures_from_China https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Buddhist_sculptu... could conclude they're all Greek-influenced. Such a claim is tenuous at best. there are elements of Greek philosophy in Buddhism as practiced in East Asia. I have never heard anyone make this claim. If we flip the claim, as Buddhist jataka tales are known to Christianity, the reverse could also be said: "elements of Indian philosophy in Christianity as practiced in Europe". Such a statement, outside of tangential academic arguments, is broadly untrue.

tombh 5y ago

Indeed, before the Greeks The Buddha would most commonly only be depicted by his absence, an empty chair or foot prints most famously. It's amazing that the iconography of a religion so ancient and "exotic" is so significantly shaped by European culture.

routerl 5y ago
> It's amazing that the iconography of a religion so ancient and "exotic" is so significantly shaped by European culture. It's more an instance of convergence and mutual influence. Hellenistic philosophy (read: immediately after Socrates) went down a few different lines. The one with the largest influence in the West was the Academic line, concerned with empirical observations and theory making. But another major line was about how to live well, and focused primarily on ethics and the virtues. Today, the most well known school in this line is Stoicism, and this approach to philosophy really has a lot of overlap with Buddhism. The Bactrians were extremely well primed to be receptive of some "wisdom from the East" (like the type Pythagoras was supposed to have received) that covered a lot of the same topics as Hellenistic philosophy. By the time Buddhism was meaningfully re-introduced to European academics (starting around the 17th century, but culminating with Schopenhaur in the 19th), several writers once again remarked on the similarities between the Hellenistic and Buddhist traditions.
- skywal_l 5y ago
  Even the "live well" philosophies were heavily influenced by India. Democritus, the father of antique materialism which lead to Epicurus and Lucretius was heavily influenced by gymnosophists when he traveled to India. Realized this when I was talking about it with an Indian Colleague and when I mention the principals of materialism she immediately recognized elements of her own religion.
  - jbay808 5y ago
    I never realized that Democritus traveled to India. What an amazing journey that must have been.
asdff 5y ago
Hellenism is not a strictly European culture. Most of the hellenic world population lived in Africa or the middle east. These were much larger population centers than cities greece, italy, or anywhere else in the European Mediterranean at the time.
- dukeyukey 5y ago
  Maybe not European by a strict modern geographic interpretation, but ancient Greek culture laid down so many ideas fundamental to the modern West it would be disingenuous to say it isn't European.
  - klyrs 5y ago
    Wouldn't that suggest that Europe is Grecian, and not the other way around?
    - dukeyukey 5y ago
      Maybe, in the same way all adults are just big toddlers. But it discounts the pretty major effect other cultures have had, in the same way describing an adult as a grown-up toddler discounts all the experiences they’ve had in between.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]

contingencies 5y ago

Surprised this is the top thread and unchallenged. Buddhism arrived in China via the Greek Bactrian kingdom {{citation-needed}}. Buddhism arrived in the geographic region currently encompassed by the modern Chinese state via multiple routes over more than a thousand years including innumerable exchanges through the overall Tarim Basin (Xinjiang) or "silk road" area via modern Tajikistan, Afghanistan and Pakistan but also via Tibet and by sea through Southeast Asia (Myanmar, Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, and probably some sporadic oceanic contact with South Asia and Buddhist kingdoms in Indonesia). Tajikistan in particular is only slightly archaeologically investigated to date owing to its remote location, poor infrastructure, geopolitical challenges and IIRC the use of mines during 20th century military conflicts. In short, like any other set of ideas it probably arrived in waves of migration, monkly pilgrimages, exchanges, and instances of official diplomacy. There are records of Buddhism being preached to China by the geographically proximal Yuezhi people as early as 2BCE. Classical Chinese history teaches that Buddhism "came to China" in 67CE. Hellenistic artistic styles are, to my knowledge, never mentioned. Buddha as depicted in East Asia is wearing Greek robes The robes are not Greek, they are Buddhist. Buddhism was established in the sixth century BCE. We can read that in Buddhist tradition monks are only allowed a robe and a begging bowl, and that the historical Buddha also set forth a tradition that discouraged iconography as improper worship of likeness (idolatry). This may be because Buddha composed his philosophy in reaction to the prevailing religious environment, where he had previously partaken in such habits which were and remain deeply culturally entrenched. In short, Greco-Buddhist art is influential because it is, in a sense, the first major period with any voluminous production of "Buddhist art" (a notion decidedly not Buddhist), and in any event, the Hellenistic style robes primarily only affects Mahayana art, and the modern geographical scope of China also encompasses an endemic Vajrayana philosophy, Theravada, and Tibetan. Even within Mahayana artistic tradition in China, I don't see how a cursory inspection of - for example - robes depicted at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Buddhist_sculpture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Buddhist_sculpture or https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Buddhist_sculptures_from_China https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Buddhist_sculptu... could conclude they're all Greek-influenced. Such a claim is tenuous at best. there are elements of Greek philosophy in Buddhism as practiced in East Asia. I have never heard anyone make this claim. If we flip the claim, as Buddhist jataka tales are known to Christianity, the reverse could also be said: "elements of Indian philosophy in Christianity as practiced in Europe". Such a statement, outside of tangential academic arguments, is broadly untrue.