6 ms·

I don't understand why people are so eager to slather chemicals on their skin, when we evolved with the sun and it's not hard for most people to avoid sun burn.

I don't understand why people are so eager to slather chemicals on their skin, when we evolved with the sun and it's not hard for most people to avoid sun burn. You just have get sun exposure on a somewhat regular basis (healthy to do anyway) and acclimate between seasons (ie, don't go abruptly from no sun to all the sun).

leesalminen 5y ago
I live at altitude (~8000 ft) and have very fair skin. I burn within 20 minutes of being in direct sunlight. So, I’m not sure what it is I’m supposed to do.
- fallingfrog 5y ago
  I used to be like that, but I started going outside for a 10 minute walk with a t shirt on every day. (I wore a wide brim hat.) Now, I never get sunburned. My skin doesn’t look any different but it stands up to sunlight a lot better. Ymmv
- ping_pong 5y ago
  I think what OP is suggesting is to go out 1 min the first day, 2 mins the second day, etc, until you have built up enough melanin in your skin and have a natural defense against it.
  - NovemberWhiskey 5y ago
    Is there any basis to this theory, at all, in science?
    - BTCOG 5y ago
      Of course there is. It's called acclimatization to UV. Humans, plants, animals are all living beings exposed to solar radiation.
      - asdff 5y ago
        There is no fitness advantage to being resistant to UV rays. natural selection isn't about you living a long and happy life. It's about you living long enough to breed and rear offspring and whatever happens afterwards doesn't really matter, as it's not selected for. Humans are fertile in 15 years. You can get skin cancer and still make successful progeny.
    - asdff 5y ago
      Bob marley died of skin cancer, and he was certainly tan. There is a documented difference between caucasians and other races with skin cancer rates: "[skin cancer] represents ~ 35–45% of all neoplasms in Caucasians, 4–5% in Hispanics, 2–4% in Asians, and 1–2% in Blacks." What strikes me about this is that it's only caucasians that have elevated rates here. Many asians are light skinned but score similarly here to blacks. While it is tempting to conclude melanin offers protection and that is one theory laid out in this paper, I think there are confounding variables here that elevate the risk among caucasion populations relative to Asian populations that have about the same skin tones. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2757062/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2757062/
  - lostlogin 5y ago
    According to what I was taught and also the FDA websites, a tan is skin damage and increases the risk of skin cancer. https://www.fda.gov/radiation-emitting-products/tanning/risks-tanning https://www.fda.gov/radiation-emitting-products/tanning/risk...
- chabes 5y ago
  I have very fair skin and used to burn easily, but now I don’t wear sunscreen 99% of the time I would have in the past. I just make sure to go outside regularly (starting in the winter months, here in the northern hemisphere) and expose my body to the sun, all year, and not just during vacation months. UV intensity changes with the seasons. Expose your skin to the sun when UVs are lower and your skin will adjust to the higher UV levels slowly over time. Before the industrial revolution, lots of work was outdoors, such as farming. Changes in industry drove folks to work more indoors, in factories and offices. Combine that with the culture of working all year and vacationing in the summertime. Folks stayed inside when UV intensity was manageable, and went outside for the bulk of their vacation, when UV levels were more intense. No wonder people think they need a product to protect their skin at all times from UVs. I’m not against sunscreen. I’m against unnecessary use of a product that encourages more use of said product. At high altitude, I’ll sometimes put zinc on my nose and ears, though I usually wear long sleeves to protect the arms.
  - asdff 5y ago
    The idea that you simply need to tan or lay out in the sun to become resistant to skin cancer is a fallacy. That's not how your body works. There is chemical damage to your DNA taking place that your body is actively repairing, but your repair mechanism isn't perfect. There is an inherent error rate. Increase exposure to sun, you are more likely to roll the dice and have a damaged cell that evades detection by your repair mechanisms, and all cells that come from this one damaged cell will also have this mutation that makes them invisible to your defense mechanisms. these cells can slough off the mass and slip into your circulatory system and take root elsewhere in your body. Bob Marley died of skin cancer, and he was plenty tan.
    - chabes 5y ago
      Not saying fair skin people need a tan. I’m still fair skinned, even though I am outside often. Nor am I calling for simply increasing exposure to sunlight. All good things in moderation. There’s a balance to be found between adequate sun exposure and overexposure. The best way is intermittent exposure. A little here and a little there. Hang out in the shade of trees in the heat of the day, out of direct light, but exposed to healthy amounts of ambient UV. Early and late hours of the day have lower UV levels as well. Just need to be more conscious about factors like that.
- BTCOG 5y ago
  Wear a gardening/fishing type hat, wear long sleeve shirts that are cool breathing, and wear jeans/pants throughout the summer. I was out gardening for 7 hours straight this past Sunday in 86 degree weather with high UV index and by wearing the type of clothing to cover your skin you'll be able to stay out for hours without burning. Also you'll of course want to take measured breaks and cool downs. Look at how people have to dress in middle-Eastern countries for a reference point. Keep most the skin covered. This way, you may only need to apply any sunscreen to the tops of the hands/fingers.
- LgWoodenBadger 5y ago
  I have taken to buying long-sleeved (and hooded) fishing gear to wear outdoors in the spring and summer. With modern synthetics it's not bad at all, certainly better than cotton. Same with pants.
ajkdhcb2 5y ago
I encourage you to learn about rates of skin cancer in Australia. Most people get it. People of european genetics didnt evolve to live there In other countries you may have a point, I am not sure
not2b 5y ago
Those of us in the US and Australia who are of northern European ancestry are descended from people who lived at much higher latitudes than where we live now. So no, we didn't evolve with the sun that we're currently dealing with, but a much weaker one that was lower in the sky.
gameswithgo 5y ago
I mean, you ever been to a beach? You can't acclimate to being out at the beach all day.
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  Some people can. I am one. I will burn if I don't ramp up to it, but I eventually get very brown and can stay out all day without burning.
  - lostlogin 5y ago
    It’s the browning that some of us are tying to avoid - it comes with a heightened risk of skin cancers, which is very unfortunate as my unhealthy pallor could do with it. https://www.fda.gov/radiation-emitting-products/tanning/risks-tanning#2 https://www.fda.gov/radiation-emitting-products/tanning/risk...
EForEndeavour 5y ago
This bad advice would raise the rate of perfectly preventable skin cancer if people followed it, which we absolutely should not.
NovemberWhiskey 5y ago
I hope this isn't a newsflash to anyone, but you don't need to get sunburnt to get heightened skin cancer risk from sun exposure.
lostlogin 5y ago
In New Zealand in summer the burn time gets down to below 10 minutes. Light clothing isn’t enough to protect skin. I have burnt a child though their t-shirt. I have burnt my eyes and have burnt my skin rather too often. Even vaguely light skin gets burnt with a short duration exposure in January or February. I think you are under-appreciating people fierce it gets.
asdff 5y ago
We evolved to be fertile in about 15 years then die after rearing young. There is no fitness advantage to being resistant to skin cancer and living into your silver years. You will have already bred and passed on your skincancer susceptible genetic information to your offspring by the time it kills you. Evolution isn't the story of perfect, it's the story of just good enough to make progeny.
lambdaba 5y ago
It's because people's body fat has shifted towards polyunsaturated fats since they were told to avoid saturated fat. Eating saturated fat and avoiding polyunsaturated fat I don't sunburn anymore. At all.
deleted 5y ago
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- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
rsync 5y ago
"It's not hard for most people to avoid sun burn. You just have get sun exposure on a somewhat regular basis ..." Or, even simpler, and less controversial: Just buy some super lightweight, long sleeved shirts ... like capilene zero or equivalent. And put on a sun hat. Problem solved.
- throwkeep 5y ago
  Yes, thanks, I should have added that too.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

leesalminen 5y ago

I live at altitude (~8000 ft) and have very fair skin. I burn within 20 minutes of being in direct sunlight. So, I’m not sure what it is I’m supposed to do.

fallingfrog 5y ago
I used to be like that, but I started going outside for a 10 minute walk with a t shirt on every day. (I wore a wide brim hat.) Now, I never get sunburned. My skin doesn’t look any different but it stands up to sunlight a lot better. Ymmv
ping_pong 5y ago
I think what OP is suggesting is to go out 1 min the first day, 2 mins the second day, etc, until you have built up enough melanin in your skin and have a natural defense against it.
- NovemberWhiskey 5y ago
  Is there any basis to this theory, at all, in science?
  - BTCOG 5y ago
    Of course there is. It's called acclimatization to UV. Humans, plants, animals are all living beings exposed to solar radiation.
    - asdff 5y ago
      There is no fitness advantage to being resistant to UV rays. natural selection isn't about you living a long and happy life. It's about you living long enough to breed and rear offspring and whatever happens afterwards doesn't really matter, as it's not selected for. Humans are fertile in 15 years. You can get skin cancer and still make successful progeny.
  - asdff 5y ago
    Bob marley died of skin cancer, and he was certainly tan. There is a documented difference between caucasians and other races with skin cancer rates: "[skin cancer] represents ~ 35–45% of all neoplasms in Caucasians, 4–5% in Hispanics, 2–4% in Asians, and 1–2% in Blacks." What strikes me about this is that it's only caucasians that have elevated rates here. Many asians are light skinned but score similarly here to blacks. While it is tempting to conclude melanin offers protection and that is one theory laid out in this paper, I think there are confounding variables here that elevate the risk among caucasion populations relative to Asian populations that have about the same skin tones. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2757062/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2757062/
- lostlogin 5y ago
  According to what I was taught and also the FDA websites, a tan is skin damage and increases the risk of skin cancer. https://www.fda.gov/radiation-emitting-products/tanning/risks-tanning https://www.fda.gov/radiation-emitting-products/tanning/risk...
chabes 5y ago
I have very fair skin and used to burn easily, but now I don’t wear sunscreen 99% of the time I would have in the past. I just make sure to go outside regularly (starting in the winter months, here in the northern hemisphere) and expose my body to the sun, all year, and not just during vacation months. UV intensity changes with the seasons. Expose your skin to the sun when UVs are lower and your skin will adjust to the higher UV levels slowly over time. Before the industrial revolution, lots of work was outdoors, such as farming. Changes in industry drove folks to work more indoors, in factories and offices. Combine that with the culture of working all year and vacationing in the summertime. Folks stayed inside when UV intensity was manageable, and went outside for the bulk of their vacation, when UV levels were more intense. No wonder people think they need a product to protect their skin at all times from UVs. I’m not against sunscreen. I’m against unnecessary use of a product that encourages more use of said product. At high altitude, I’ll sometimes put zinc on my nose and ears, though I usually wear long sleeves to protect the arms.
- asdff 5y ago
  The idea that you simply need to tan or lay out in the sun to become resistant to skin cancer is a fallacy. That's not how your body works. There is chemical damage to your DNA taking place that your body is actively repairing, but your repair mechanism isn't perfect. There is an inherent error rate. Increase exposure to sun, you are more likely to roll the dice and have a damaged cell that evades detection by your repair mechanisms, and all cells that come from this one damaged cell will also have this mutation that makes them invisible to your defense mechanisms. these cells can slough off the mass and slip into your circulatory system and take root elsewhere in your body. Bob Marley died of skin cancer, and he was plenty tan.
  - chabes 5y ago
    Not saying fair skin people need a tan. I’m still fair skinned, even though I am outside often. Nor am I calling for simply increasing exposure to sunlight. All good things in moderation. There’s a balance to be found between adequate sun exposure and overexposure. The best way is intermittent exposure. A little here and a little there. Hang out in the shade of trees in the heat of the day, out of direct light, but exposed to healthy amounts of ambient UV. Early and late hours of the day have lower UV levels as well. Just need to be more conscious about factors like that.
BTCOG 5y ago
Wear a gardening/fishing type hat, wear long sleeve shirts that are cool breathing, and wear jeans/pants throughout the summer. I was out gardening for 7 hours straight this past Sunday in 86 degree weather with high UV index and by wearing the type of clothing to cover your skin you'll be able to stay out for hours without burning. Also you'll of course want to take measured breaks and cool downs. Look at how people have to dress in middle-Eastern countries for a reference point. Keep most the skin covered. This way, you may only need to apply any sunscreen to the tops of the hands/fingers.
LgWoodenBadger 5y ago
I have taken to buying long-sleeved (and hooded) fishing gear to wear outdoors in the spring and summer. With modern synthetics it's not bad at all, certainly better than cotton. Same with pants.

ajkdhcb2 5y ago

I encourage you to learn about rates of skin cancer in Australia. Most people get it. People of european genetics didnt evolve to live there In other countries you may have a point, I am not sure

not2b 5y ago

Those of us in the US and Australia who are of northern European ancestry are descended from people who lived at much higher latitudes than where we live now. So no, we didn't evolve with the sun that we're currently dealing with, but a much weaker one that was lower in the sky.

gameswithgo 5y ago

I mean, you ever been to a beach? You can't acclimate to being out at the beach all day.

throwawayboise 5y ago
Some people can. I am one. I will burn if I don't ramp up to it, but I eventually get very brown and can stay out all day without burning.
- lostlogin 5y ago
  It’s the browning that some of us are tying to avoid - it comes with a heightened risk of skin cancers, which is very unfortunate as my unhealthy pallor could do with it. https://www.fda.gov/radiation-emitting-products/tanning/risks-tanning#2 https://www.fda.gov/radiation-emitting-products/tanning/risk...

EForEndeavour 5y ago

This bad advice would raise the rate of perfectly preventable skin cancer if people followed it, which we absolutely should not.

NovemberWhiskey 5y ago

I hope this isn't a newsflash to anyone, but you don't need to get sunburnt to get heightened skin cancer risk from sun exposure.

lostlogin 5y ago

In New Zealand in summer the burn time gets down to below 10 minutes. Light clothing isn’t enough to protect skin. I have burnt a child though their t-shirt. I have burnt my eyes and have burnt my skin rather too often. Even vaguely light skin gets burnt with a short duration exposure in January or February. I think you are under-appreciating people fierce it gets.

asdff 5y ago

We evolved to be fertile in about 15 years then die after rearing young. There is no fitness advantage to being resistant to skin cancer and living into your silver years. You will have already bred and passed on your skincancer susceptible genetic information to your offspring by the time it kills you. Evolution isn't the story of perfect, it's the story of just good enough to make progeny.

lambdaba 5y ago

It's because people's body fat has shifted towards polyunsaturated fats since they were told to avoid saturated fat. Eating saturated fat and avoiding polyunsaturated fat I don't sunburn anymore. At all.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

rsync 5y ago

"It's not hard for most people to avoid sun burn. You just have get sun exposure on a somewhat regular basis ..." Or, even simpler, and less controversial: Just buy some super lightweight, long sleeved shirts ... like capilene zero or equivalent. And put on a sun hat. Problem solved.

throwkeep 5y ago
Yes, thanks, I should have added that too.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]