38 ms·

Childish behaviour

62 points by markokocic 15y ago

lzm 15y ago
Political correctness aside, names like 'pantyshot' and 'upskirt' do pose a practical problem: search results about these terms have the risk of being NSFW, and might be even blocked by your company's firewall.
willvarfar 15y ago
Googling Misaka - the new name chosen - made me despair. Its like the author wants another sly chuckle at his towering maturity.
- Hisoka 15y ago
  Misaka is just a Japanese name.. dun see anything wrong with it.
  - rubinelli 15y ago
    I can't say getting the reference makes me feel very mature but, Misaka is an anime heroine with psychic powers... that uses shorts under her skirt.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- FSX 15y ago
  Can you explain what made you in despair? I don't understand what I did wrong this time.
nekitamo 15y ago
Boy never grow up; their toys just get more expensive.
mbubb 15y ago
Much milder - but I always got a chuckle over the pornview program - a nice little program to view whole directories of photos under Debian. Quite possibly not the best for the job but a name stuck in memory.
- kelnos 15y ago
  That reminds me: I'm not sure if it's still the case, but I recall that the image decoding library written for Mozilla was called "libpr0n". Pretty high profile, and I imagine many people might consider it inappropriate.
fmavituna 15y ago
So many open source developers code stuff for fun and calling their projects something like "fucking simple fuzzer". When I write something for fun I want to name it something fun and I don't care what other thinks, whether they can find it in their Google or not, the point was writing the code and if I can't give a lovely name to my own projects what's it good for? If you find it offensive for you taste don't use it. An open source repository that tries to police this kind of stuff is just ridiculous unless there is a legal issue. Who finds "upskirt" offensive? It's childish, yeah, offensive, I don't think so. If a woman decides to not work on open source projects because she finds that a library named "upskirt", that's her problem.
- owenmarshall 15y ago
  > Who finds "upskirt" offensive? It's childish, yeah, offensive, I don't think so. If a woman decides to not work on open source projects because she finds that a library named "upskirt", that's her problem. You're speaking from a position of privilege in a field overwhelmingly dominated by men. And that type of thinking gets us: http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Sexualized_presentation http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Sexualized_presentation
  - sneak 15y ago
    Men can wear skirts, too.
    - imrehg 15y ago
      But nobody, no man and no woman want to take an upskirt shot of that...
- JonnieCache 15y ago
  >If a woman decides to not work on open source projects because she finds that a library named "upskirt", that's her problem. Assuming that woman was competent, then it's my problem, your problem, and the problem of all users of OSS, direct or otherwise, which includes everyone on earth.
- 15y ago
kanja 15y ago
I will never understand why some people have such a need to control the language of others. When that need starts being given serious consideration organization - regardless of the "think of the X" logic being thrown around - it's a really bad sign.
- talaketu 15y ago
  Oh come on. It's PSF's shop. Their catalog. Their speech. Their freedom.
arctangent 15y ago
Related: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2687372 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2687372
owlbear 15y ago
It seemed like the author was just trying to please people while being apathetic to the whole thing. This isn't an issue of censorship, people who want the library and all references of it online to be removed are trying to censor the author. If you own a repo and choose not to host someone's project because of an offensive name, that's fair. It's not stopping the project from being hosted elsewhere. Plenty of programming forums will ask a user to change his name if it's reported as offensive, it's the same thing. It's not stopping him form still participating in the community nor is it censorship because if he chooses to post the same thing under the same name somewhere else he's welcome to. If they want to continue hosting the project under the original name, fine, if they want to ask him to change the name, fine, but hiding behind "free speech" is ridiculous.
JonnieCache 15y ago
The main reason I don't like the name upskirt is that it led to me wasting precious brain-seconds trying to work out in what sense it was a pun on 'Markdown,' after the fashion of 'Discount,' and so on. Obviously it turns out that it isn't a pun at all. I had assumed that the pun would excuse the sexist connotations of upskirt, that it would be an amusing bait-and-switch manoeuvre, that the author wanted to be able to say, "Hey, you thought I was being misogynistic, but in fact the error was yours when you failed to recognise my magnificently subtle wordplay, you philistine! Sexist? Me? How dare you leap to such conclusions!" In fact all they wanted to do was evoke images of sexual assault. How disappointing. EDIT: An interesting thought: would upskirt be an acceptable name for a portscanner/banner-scraper? I think perhaps it would, but it would open the doors to a whole area of extremely distasteful names for pentesting tools in general.
true_religion 15y ago
Does everything sexual have to be the bastion of men? Does everything sexual at a woman's expense have to be misogynist by implication? Does everything sexual have to be juvenile? Is this how the international population perceives sexual interactions and situations?
- peteretep 15y ago
  > Does everything sexual have to be the bastion of men? No, but this was > Does everything sexual at a woman's expense have to be misogynist by implication? Yes. The clue is in the phrase "at a woman's expense". Does everything invoking female sexuality have to be misogynistic? No. > Does everything sexual have to be juvenile? No. But inappropriate sexuality (ie: naming a software library after sexual assault) is juvenile.
  - true_religion 15y ago
    I don't disagree with the conclusions reached by the article nor the Cheesebox board. I disagree with their arguments though. -- Misogynistic isn't defined as "sexuality at a woman's expense". It isn't defined as anything that makes one feel discomforted. It is hatred and dislike onto women. Even if something is inappropriate or childish or disgusting or any number of epithets that you can tack onto it, it is not automatically misogynistic simply because it relates to women. Using heighten terminology out of place cheapens the terminology and makes it lose the caustic impact that rightly should have. -- Secondly, inappropriate sexuality is not juvenile. Inappropriate sexuality is often illegal, and I wouldn't characterize that as being something expected from children. I suspect people want to call it juvenile in order to have a way to publicly shame those who practice it. In their (and perhaps your too) zeal to censure others, you've created an odd situation wherein: 1. The situation is called misogynist---aka evil. 2. The situation is called childish. So misogynistic is childish now? Or is it the reverse: are children misogynistic then grow out of it? -- See this is why I don't agree with the arguments as used. They're the arguments of a firebrand or a demagogue---not a logician.
    - CodeMage 15y ago
pnathan 15y ago
If you want to have your packages used in a buttoned-up corporate environment, you had better use more professional names. If you want your community to be acceptable for such an environment (ie, you want to see that awesome technology stack in the company rather than the latest blandware), you should put pressure on your community to be at least marginally acceptable.
swalkergibson 15y ago
This is discussion is interesting. Are there any women that care to comment? It seems that, as of now, the commentary is coming from men deciding how women should feel.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- carols10cents 15y ago
  Woman here. I don't offend easily though... If I were to come across this library as something that I wanted to use, it would probably merit a sigh or a shake of my head. I'd also be more likely to dismiss the whole library as a joke since the name seemed to be a (not very wise) joke, and I would look for something of better quality. I wouldn't hold it against the host of the library, though, unless they were actively promoting it or something. There will always be bad apples in every community. As long as they're on the fringe I don't think the community as a whole should be judged by them.

62 points by markokocic 15y ago

lzm 15y ago

Political correctness aside, names like 'pantyshot' and 'upskirt' do pose a practical problem: search results about these terms have the risk of being NSFW, and might be even blocked by your company's firewall.

willvarfar 15y ago

Googling Misaka - the new name chosen - made me despair. Its like the author wants another sly chuckle at his towering maturity.

Hisoka 15y ago
Misaka is just a Japanese name.. dun see anything wrong with it.
- rubinelli 15y ago
  I can't say getting the reference makes me feel very mature but, Misaka is an anime heroine with psychic powers... that uses shorts under her skirt.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
FSX 15y ago
Can you explain what made you in despair? I don't understand what I did wrong this time.

nekitamo 15y ago

Boy never grow up; their toys just get more expensive.

mbubb 15y ago

Much milder - but I always got a chuckle over the pornview program - a nice little program to view whole directories of photos under Debian. Quite possibly not the best for the job but a name stuck in memory.

kelnos 15y ago
That reminds me: I'm not sure if it's still the case, but I recall that the image decoding library written for Mozilla was called "libpr0n". Pretty high profile, and I imagine many people might consider it inappropriate.

fmavituna 15y ago

So many open source developers code stuff for fun and calling their projects something like "fucking simple fuzzer". When I write something for fun I want to name it something fun and I don't care what other thinks, whether they can find it in their Google or not, the point was writing the code and if I can't give a lovely name to my own projects what's it good for? If you find it offensive for you taste don't use it. An open source repository that tries to police this kind of stuff is just ridiculous unless there is a legal issue. Who finds "upskirt" offensive? It's childish, yeah, offensive, I don't think so. If a woman decides to not work on open source projects because she finds that a library named "upskirt", that's her problem.

owenmarshall 15y ago
> Who finds "upskirt" offensive? It's childish, yeah, offensive, I don't think so. If a woman decides to not work on open source projects because she finds that a library named "upskirt", that's her problem. You're speaking from a position of privilege in a field overwhelmingly dominated by men. And that type of thinking gets us: http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Sexualized_presentation http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Sexualized_presentation
- sneak 15y ago
  Men can wear skirts, too.
  - imrehg 15y ago
    But nobody, no man and no woman want to take an upskirt shot of that...
JonnieCache 15y ago
>If a woman decides to not work on open source projects because she finds that a library named "upskirt", that's her problem. Assuming that woman was competent, then it's my problem, your problem, and the problem of all users of OSS, direct or otherwise, which includes everyone on earth.
15y ago

kanja 15y ago

I will never understand why some people have such a need to control the language of others. When that need starts being given serious consideration organization - regardless of the "think of the X" logic being thrown around - it's a really bad sign.

talaketu 15y ago
Oh come on. It's PSF's shop. Their catalog. Their speech. Their freedom.

arctangent 15y ago

Related: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2687372 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2687372

owlbear 15y ago

It seemed like the author was just trying to please people while being apathetic to the whole thing. This isn't an issue of censorship, people who want the library and all references of it online to be removed are trying to censor the author. If you own a repo and choose not to host someone's project because of an offensive name, that's fair. It's not stopping the project from being hosted elsewhere. Plenty of programming forums will ask a user to change his name if it's reported as offensive, it's the same thing. It's not stopping him form still participating in the community nor is it censorship because if he chooses to post the same thing under the same name somewhere else he's welcome to. If they want to continue hosting the project under the original name, fine, if they want to ask him to change the name, fine, but hiding behind "free speech" is ridiculous.

JonnieCache 15y ago

The main reason I don't like the name upskirt is that it led to me wasting precious brain-seconds trying to work out in what sense it was a pun on 'Markdown,' after the fashion of 'Discount,' and so on. Obviously it turns out that it isn't a pun at all. I had assumed that the pun would excuse the sexist connotations of upskirt, that it would be an amusing bait-and-switch manoeuvre, that the author wanted to be able to say, "Hey, you thought I was being misogynistic, but in fact the error was yours when you failed to recognise my magnificently subtle wordplay, you philistine! Sexist? Me? How dare you leap to such conclusions!" In fact all they wanted to do was evoke images of sexual assault. How disappointing. EDIT: An interesting thought: would upskirt be an acceptable name for a portscanner/banner-scraper? I think perhaps it would, but it would open the doors to a whole area of extremely distasteful names for pentesting tools in general.

true_religion 15y ago

Does everything sexual have to be the bastion of men? Does everything sexual at a woman's expense have to be misogynist by implication? Does everything sexual have to be juvenile? Is this how the international population perceives sexual interactions and situations?

peteretep 15y ago
> Does everything sexual have to be the bastion of men? No, but this was > Does everything sexual at a woman's expense have to be misogynist by implication? Yes. The clue is in the phrase "at a woman's expense". Does everything invoking female sexuality have to be misogynistic? No. > Does everything sexual have to be juvenile? No. But inappropriate sexuality (ie: naming a software library after sexual assault) is juvenile.
- true_religion 15y ago
  I don't disagree with the conclusions reached by the article nor the Cheesebox board. I disagree with their arguments though. -- Misogynistic isn't defined as "sexuality at a woman's expense". It isn't defined as anything that makes one feel discomforted. It is hatred and dislike onto women. Even if something is inappropriate or childish or disgusting or any number of epithets that you can tack onto it, it is not automatically misogynistic simply because it relates to women. Using heighten terminology out of place cheapens the terminology and makes it lose the caustic impact that rightly should have. -- Secondly, inappropriate sexuality is not juvenile. Inappropriate sexuality is often illegal, and I wouldn't characterize that as being something expected from children. I suspect people want to call it juvenile in order to have a way to publicly shame those who practice it. In their (and perhaps your too) zeal to censure others, you've created an odd situation wherein: 1. The situation is called misogynist---aka evil. 2. The situation is called childish. So misogynistic is childish now? Or is it the reverse: are children misogynistic then grow out of it? -- See this is why I don't agree with the arguments as used. They're the arguments of a firebrand or a demagogue---not a logician.
  - CodeMage 15y ago

pnathan 15y ago

If you want to have your packages used in a buttoned-up corporate environment, you had better use more professional names. If you want your community to be acceptable for such an environment (ie, you want to see that awesome technology stack in the company rather than the latest blandware), you should put pressure on your community to be at least marginally acceptable.

swalkergibson 15y ago

This is discussion is interesting. Are there any women that care to comment? It seems that, as of now, the commentary is coming from men deciding how women should feel.

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
carols10cents 15y ago
Woman here. I don't offend easily though... If I were to come across this library as something that I wanted to use, it would probably merit a sigh or a shake of my head. I'd also be more likely to dismiss the whole library as a joke since the name seemed to be a (not very wise) joke, and I would look for something of better quality. I wouldn't hold it against the host of the library, though, unless they were actively promoting it or something. There will always be bad apples in every community. As long as they're on the fringe I don't think the community as a whole should be judged by them.