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Hopefully we can force similar rulings in other countries and on the EU level. This ruling may be a precedent since it is partially based on the European law.

Hopefully we can force similar rulings in other countries and on the EU level. This ruling may be a precedent since it is partially based on the European law. The same could be attempted across the whole world where judicial branch holds actual power. https://www.urgenda.nl/en/themas/climate-case/global-climate-litigation/ https://www.urgenda.nl/en/themas/climate-case/global-climate... https://peoplesclimatecase.caneurope.org/ https://peoplesclimatecase.caneurope.org/ http://climatecasechart.com/non-us-climate-change-litigation/ http://climatecasechart.com/non-us-climate-change-litigation...

kolbe 5y ago
There's a line in The Wire where an honest hard working security guard asks Marlo to not disrespect him by stealing in front of him. Marlo says, "you want it to be one way, but it's the other way," then Marlo kills him. You can downvote me all you want. You can "hope" to do whatever in your crusade. You can tell me all about what "could" happen if the world weren't the way is. But it's not that way. It's the other way.
- epistasis 5y ago
  In this analogy, one might think that Shell is Marlo and society is the security guard, but the reality is that the roles are reversed. If Shell does not change their game, they will die. Global capital is coming to terms with this, though there are still a few executives in power at banks that don't realize it. Fossil fuel companies skate by because they have access to cheap loans right now. But as that dries up, so will their extraction of fossil fuels. This is happening far more quickly than most people realize, since most people aren't following that side of financial markets. Everything is shifting day by day.
  - kolbe 5y ago
    That isn’t at all the analogy. Quit reducing this to a war on climate. The “way the world is” corporations are highly mobile, and they engage in regulatory arbitrage. If RDS’s home country wants to put an onerous requirement on them, they will leave to a country that won’t. If landing a tiny little punch on RDS in order to lose hundreds of millions (if not billions) of dollars in import revenue to their country, then sure, this is a win. But this won’t materially affect climate change. This won’t even materially affect RDS. It will materially affect the Dutch people who have come to depend on the economic benefits of having RDS headquartered in their town/country.
    - epistasis 5y ago
      Not really sure how what you describe here relates to the story from The Wire. But in any case, this will materially affect climate change in as far as NL is going to be reducing their carbon footprint. It will materially affect climate change in that it will embolden further lawsuits, in other countries. It will materially benefit the Dutch people in that either Shell will switch away from fossil fuels to more economically efficient carbon free economic activity, or Shell will leave and the Dutch will have some other business take the place that it better suited to the future. Today, activist investors took over 2-3 seats on Exxon's board to push Exxon to a lower carbon future. Finance is already fleeing from exploration of new fossil fuel. Fossil fuel companies are taking out loans to pay dividends, to trick investors into thinking that nothing is wrong. Their stock prices are taking a nose dive. Shell, and all the oil majors, have a very short time period to change their ways, or they will be abandoned by investors as they have destroyed their future earnings potential, and acquire massive liability for their externalities.
- Isinlor 5y ago
  It's not only my crusade. It's also increasingly companies stakeholders. There are trillions dollar investor groups pushing for addressing risks and opportunities of climate emergency. Court cases give a lot of leverage to people inside these groups to apply pressure on companies like Shell. Investor Group on Climate Change (IGCC) manages over $2 trillions The Institutional Investors Group on Climate Change (IIGCC) with over €23 trillion in assets under management Go against states like Netherlands, states unions like European Union, and institutional investors managing tens of trillions worth of assets at your own peril. And the pressure will only keep increasing as the old generations die and the new take power.

kolbe 5y ago

There's a line in The Wire where an honest hard working security guard asks Marlo to not disrespect him by stealing in front of him. Marlo says, "you want it to be one way, but it's the other way," then Marlo kills him. You can downvote me all you want. You can "hope" to do whatever in your crusade. You can tell me all about what "could" happen if the world weren't the way is. But it's not that way. It's the other way.

epistasis 5y ago
In this analogy, one might think that Shell is Marlo and society is the security guard, but the reality is that the roles are reversed. If Shell does not change their game, they will die. Global capital is coming to terms with this, though there are still a few executives in power at banks that don't realize it. Fossil fuel companies skate by because they have access to cheap loans right now. But as that dries up, so will their extraction of fossil fuels. This is happening far more quickly than most people realize, since most people aren't following that side of financial markets. Everything is shifting day by day.
- kolbe 5y ago
  That isn’t at all the analogy. Quit reducing this to a war on climate. The “way the world is” corporations are highly mobile, and they engage in regulatory arbitrage. If RDS’s home country wants to put an onerous requirement on them, they will leave to a country that won’t. If landing a tiny little punch on RDS in order to lose hundreds of millions (if not billions) of dollars in import revenue to their country, then sure, this is a win. But this won’t materially affect climate change. This won’t even materially affect RDS. It will materially affect the Dutch people who have come to depend on the economic benefits of having RDS headquartered in their town/country.
  - epistasis 5y ago
    Not really sure how what you describe here relates to the story from The Wire. But in any case, this will materially affect climate change in as far as NL is going to be reducing their carbon footprint. It will materially affect climate change in that it will embolden further lawsuits, in other countries. It will materially benefit the Dutch people in that either Shell will switch away from fossil fuels to more economically efficient carbon free economic activity, or Shell will leave and the Dutch will have some other business take the place that it better suited to the future. Today, activist investors took over 2-3 seats on Exxon's board to push Exxon to a lower carbon future. Finance is already fleeing from exploration of new fossil fuel. Fossil fuel companies are taking out loans to pay dividends, to trick investors into thinking that nothing is wrong. Their stock prices are taking a nose dive. Shell, and all the oil majors, have a very short time period to change their ways, or they will be abandoned by investors as they have destroyed their future earnings potential, and acquire massive liability for their externalities.
Isinlor 5y ago
It's not only my crusade. It's also increasingly companies stakeholders. There are trillions dollar investor groups pushing for addressing risks and opportunities of climate emergency. Court cases give a lot of leverage to people inside these groups to apply pressure on companies like Shell. Investor Group on Climate Change (IGCC) manages over $2 trillions The Institutional Investors Group on Climate Change (IIGCC) with over €23 trillion in assets under management Go against states like Netherlands, states unions like European Union, and institutional investors managing tens of trillions worth of assets at your own peril. And the pressure will only keep increasing as the old generations die and the new take power.