7 ms·

I genuinely wonder how stupid one has to be to think that this was a good strategy. Has the person who came up with this idea ever met people? This kind of thi

I genuinely wonder how stupid one has to be to think that this was a good strategy. Has the person who came up with this idea ever met people? This kind of thing regularly blows up private platforms, on an open protocol like IRC this was guaranteed to trigger a swift mass migration.

tutfbhuf 5y ago
Maybe everything goes according to Lee's plan, who knows.
- rebolek 5y ago
  If his plan is 1) kick all users out and destroy reputation 2) ??? 3) profit! then probably yes.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    is 3) necessary? maybe he needs to show a loss for tax purposes?
numeromancer 5y ago
I doubt that they are stupid, so one must conclude that the purpose was to silence speach, not profit from it.
- rsynnott 5y ago
  Eh, to be honest the most obvious answer to this is just that Lee is an idiot.
- simias 5y ago
  I think it's much simpler than that, they just panicked and handled the situation poorly, and then they keep doubling down and digging a deeper hole. Seeing the situation from the outside, it's obvious that what they're doing is self-defeating, but I suppose that they saw that they were hemorrhaging channels and users and saw the writing on the wall and decided to enact desperate measures in order to save the network. Given the health of IRC in general there's probably not enough room for both Freenode and Libera to strive. One of them was bound to become irrelevant, and the momentum favored Libra even before this desperate move. I'm afraid that we're just witnessing the death throes of freenode.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - account42 5y ago
    > Given the health of IRC in general there's probably not enough room for both Freenode and Libera to strive. One of them was bound to become irrelevant, and the momentum favored Libra even before this desperate move. I agree that one will end up on top, and also that Freenode will likely die completely - but even when it comes to large FOSS-related networks, there were two active ones before this: Freenode and OFTC.
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  Never underestimate how dumb people can be.
nerdponx 5y ago
Someone in another thread posited that purging existing users is the intended outcome, perhaps leading to some kind of business move, re-branding of Freenode, VC funding, etc.
- praptak 5y ago
  It does not make any sense. What will Lee actually own and how would he make money from it?
- CydeWeys 5y ago
  An IRC network without its users is worth nothing though. Anyone can trivially spin up a new IRC network for the cost of a domain name and a VM to host it on. The hard part is getting anyone to care (and thus to use it). If you run FreeNode into the ground and cause all the users to flee, there's nothing left, just a name with negative brand value (like Enron).
coldpie 5y ago
After ~15 years on Freenode, I was taking a wait-and-see approach. Despite reading like four explainers, I didn't really understand what the drama was or why the new owner was such a disaster. I kind of expected the drama to die after a few weeks/months, and then Freenode would go back to being just another IRC server. Then I woke up this morning and saw this. Bye, Freenode.
- jeltz 5y ago
  Same here. I expected some channels to move and some to stay and that I would just have to connect to one more server once the dust had settled.
- rubin55 5y ago
  So much this. Yesterday I did a walk through the ~44 channels I frequent on FreeNode and came up with about 20ish that where moving to either OFTC or Libera. I left those channels, keeping ~24 channels that were not likely to move off of FreeNode. Fast-forward today. All those channels are moving now, none left! Yesterday this could be considered a 55/45% split and had new FreeNode staff taken a win-trust-dont-rock-boat approach, I'm sure the network would've been fine. Yesterday I was staying on FreeNode, because I don't really know the thinking behind all parties involved and could see the possible reasoning on both sides. Today I'm disconnected from FreeNode and on OFTC + Libera.
aasasd 5y ago
I mean, what do you expect of someone who posts a social-media-style PR article as a PDF.
blibble 5y ago
presumably this is an example of a rich person (used to deference) having to interact with a community that doesn't care at all that he has money meanwhile the sycophants on his payroll are no doubt telling him he's doing a grand job
- pdimitar 5y ago
  Can you give a bit more background on this? Who is the new owner, how did the takeover even happen? Wasn't Freenode a non-profit org?
  - blibble 5y ago
    this has been extensively covered over the last week or so
    - pdimitar 5y ago
      I mean OK, but I don't live in HN (or any news outlet for that matter) so it's not such an unfair question.
  - r721 5y ago
    One of many articles: https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7ev8y/freenode-open-source-korea-crown-prince-takeover https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7ev8y/freenode-open-source-...
    - pdimitar 5y ago
      Thanks, that helped a lot.
  - cpach 5y ago
    TL;DR: A while ago some dude with questionable motives and ethics gained control over Freenode and recently he started to actively destroy it. This could be a good starting point for further reading: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastMonth&page=0&prefix=true&query=freenode&sort=byDate&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastMonth&page=0&prefix=tr...
inshadows 5y ago
I doubt this strategy means taking over Freenode. No one can be this stupid. At this point it seems like he's deliberately trying to destroy what's left of Freenode, for some reason. There can't be much profit to be made for IRC and the little he can make he obviously destroyed.
- throwaway2048 5y ago
  if he wanted to destroy freenode he would turn off the servers
  - inshadows 5y ago
    Right. There must be some more nefarious scheme going on. Let me get my tin-foil hat. Or maybe he's just really that naive to except to generate revenue out of IRC network.
- CydeWeys 5y ago
  Don't underestimate how tone deaf or out-of-touch some people can be. You see this kind of stuff all the time, and it really is people who are making unbelievably hare-brained decisions.
pg_bot 5y ago
I mean the guy has had a cartoonish life based on his wikipedia page. So yeah, I can totally see him not "getting it" at all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Lee_(entrepreneur) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Lee_(entrepreneur)
- dylan604 5y ago
  How disappointing. I halfway expected to see a mustache twirling picture.
  - fellellor 5y ago
    Wait. He’s the crown prince of South Korea it seems. XD
    - dylan-m 5y ago
      Of course, it's important to note that Empire of Korea (and the imperial family) has been defunct for over sixty years. My understanding is at this point they're basically a fashion brand. Andrew Lee isn't even remotely related to any of them, as far as I can tell, although I'm curious if someone with more knowledge happens to be around. Which is kind of hilarious when you compare it to this spectacle :b
      - dragonwriter 5y ago
        > Of course, it's important to note that Empire of Korea (and the imperial family) has been defunct for over sixty years The Empire of Korea has be defunct for 110 years (which is, sure, over 60, but it is weird to describe it that way.) > My understanding is at this point they're basically a fashion brand. The Royal Family Association seems to be something somewhat more substantial than that (but not an actual monarchy, nor does it seek restoration), but its worth noting that the person who named Lee heir and crown prince is not the person recognized as the current head by that association, but a competing claimant, who is also a monarchist seeking restoration.
squarefoot 5y ago
> Has the person who came up with this idea ever met people? For sure he has absolutely no idea about what people uses IRC regularly. I can picture him thinking about "users" in a general way, like "Facebook/Instagram/Whatsapp ad-clicking users", so he's now struggling to keep them tied to the platform at any cost. Well, no. Thanks to his ignorance that is second only to his greed he's now going to rapidly lose everything. I'd bet a pizza that he'll likely sell at a loss in less than one year.

tutfbhuf 5y ago

Maybe everything goes according to Lee's plan, who knows.

rebolek 5y ago
If his plan is 1) kick all users out and destroy reputation 2) ??? 3) profit! then probably yes.
- dylan604 5y ago
  is 3) necessary? maybe he needs to show a loss for tax purposes?

numeromancer 5y ago

I doubt that they are stupid, so one must conclude that the purpose was to silence speach, not profit from it.

rsynnott 5y ago
Eh, to be honest the most obvious answer to this is just that Lee is an idiot.
simias 5y ago
I think it's much simpler than that, they just panicked and handled the situation poorly, and then they keep doubling down and digging a deeper hole. Seeing the situation from the outside, it's obvious that what they're doing is self-defeating, but I suppose that they saw that they were hemorrhaging channels and users and saw the writing on the wall and decided to enact desperate measures in order to save the network. Given the health of IRC in general there's probably not enough room for both Freenode and Libera to strive. One of them was bound to become irrelevant, and the momentum favored Libra even before this desperate move. I'm afraid that we're just witnessing the death throes of freenode.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- account42 5y ago
  > Given the health of IRC in general there's probably not enough room for both Freenode and Libera to strive. One of them was bound to become irrelevant, and the momentum favored Libra even before this desperate move. I agree that one will end up on top, and also that Freenode will likely die completely - but even when it comes to large FOSS-related networks, there were two active ones before this: Freenode and OFTC.
ashtonkem 5y ago
Never underestimate how dumb people can be.

nerdponx 5y ago

Someone in another thread posited that purging existing users is the intended outcome, perhaps leading to some kind of business move, re-branding of Freenode, VC funding, etc.

praptak 5y ago
It does not make any sense. What will Lee actually own and how would he make money from it?
CydeWeys 5y ago
An IRC network without its users is worth nothing though. Anyone can trivially spin up a new IRC network for the cost of a domain name and a VM to host it on. The hard part is getting anyone to care (and thus to use it). If you run FreeNode into the ground and cause all the users to flee, there's nothing left, just a name with negative brand value (like Enron).

coldpie 5y ago

After ~15 years on Freenode, I was taking a wait-and-see approach. Despite reading like four explainers, I didn't really understand what the drama was or why the new owner was such a disaster. I kind of expected the drama to die after a few weeks/months, and then Freenode would go back to being just another IRC server. Then I woke up this morning and saw this. Bye, Freenode.

jeltz 5y ago
Same here. I expected some channels to move and some to stay and that I would just have to connect to one more server once the dust had settled.
rubin55 5y ago
So much this. Yesterday I did a walk through the ~44 channels I frequent on FreeNode and came up with about 20ish that where moving to either OFTC or Libera. I left those channels, keeping ~24 channels that were not likely to move off of FreeNode. Fast-forward today. All those channels are moving now, none left! Yesterday this could be considered a 55/45% split and had new FreeNode staff taken a win-trust-dont-rock-boat approach, I'm sure the network would've been fine. Yesterday I was staying on FreeNode, because I don't really know the thinking behind all parties involved and could see the possible reasoning on both sides. Today I'm disconnected from FreeNode and on OFTC + Libera.

aasasd 5y ago

I mean, what do you expect of someone who posts a social-media-style PR article as a PDF.

blibble 5y ago

presumably this is an example of a rich person (used to deference) having to interact with a community that doesn't care at all that he has money meanwhile the sycophants on his payroll are no doubt telling him he's doing a grand job

pdimitar 5y ago
Can you give a bit more background on this? Who is the new owner, how did the takeover even happen? Wasn't Freenode a non-profit org?
- blibble 5y ago
  this has been extensively covered over the last week or so
  - pdimitar 5y ago
    I mean OK, but I don't live in HN (or any news outlet for that matter) so it's not such an unfair question.
- r721 5y ago
  One of many articles: https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7ev8y/freenode-open-source-korea-crown-prince-takeover https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7ev8y/freenode-open-source-...
  - pdimitar 5y ago
    Thanks, that helped a lot.
- cpach 5y ago
  TL;DR: A while ago some dude with questionable motives and ethics gained control over Freenode and recently he started to actively destroy it. This could be a good starting point for further reading: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastMonth&page=0&prefix=true&query=freenode&sort=byDate&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastMonth&page=0&prefix=tr...

inshadows 5y ago

I doubt this strategy means taking over Freenode. No one can be this stupid. At this point it seems like he's deliberately trying to destroy what's left of Freenode, for some reason. There can't be much profit to be made for IRC and the little he can make he obviously destroyed.

throwaway2048 5y ago
if he wanted to destroy freenode he would turn off the servers
- inshadows 5y ago
  Right. There must be some more nefarious scheme going on. Let me get my tin-foil hat. Or maybe he's just really that naive to except to generate revenue out of IRC network.
CydeWeys 5y ago
Don't underestimate how tone deaf or out-of-touch some people can be. You see this kind of stuff all the time, and it really is people who are making unbelievably hare-brained decisions.

pg_bot 5y ago

I mean the guy has had a cartoonish life based on his wikipedia page. So yeah, I can totally see him not "getting it" at all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Lee_(entrepreneur) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Lee_(entrepreneur)

dylan604 5y ago
How disappointing. I halfway expected to see a mustache twirling picture.
- fellellor 5y ago
  Wait. He’s the crown prince of South Korea it seems. XD
  - dylan-m 5y ago
    Of course, it's important to note that Empire of Korea (and the imperial family) has been defunct for over sixty years. My understanding is at this point they're basically a fashion brand. Andrew Lee isn't even remotely related to any of them, as far as I can tell, although I'm curious if someone with more knowledge happens to be around. Which is kind of hilarious when you compare it to this spectacle :b
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > Of course, it's important to note that Empire of Korea (and the imperial family) has been defunct for over sixty years The Empire of Korea has be defunct for 110 years (which is, sure, over 60, but it is weird to describe it that way.) > My understanding is at this point they're basically a fashion brand. The Royal Family Association seems to be something somewhat more substantial than that (but not an actual monarchy, nor does it seek restoration), but its worth noting that the person who named Lee heir and crown prince is not the person recognized as the current head by that association, but a competing claimant, who is also a monarchist seeking restoration.

squarefoot 5y ago

> Has the person who came up with this idea ever met people? For sure he has absolutely no idea about what people uses IRC regularly. I can picture him thinking about "users" in a general way, like "Facebook/Instagram/Whatsapp ad-clicking users", so he's now struggling to keep them tied to the platform at any cost. Well, no. Thanks to his ignorance that is second only to his greed he's now going to rapidly lose everything. I'd bet a pizza that he'll likely sell at a loss in less than one year.