5 ms·

Matrix is still far ahead of IRC while still being open.

by foobar33333 5y ago

anthk 5y ago
You can run an IRC client in really limited machines. You can have a client even with Netcat and SH.
- curryst 5y ago
  Machines that can't run Matrix is a pretty small subset. There's a Matrix plugin for Weechat, so you should be able to connect from anything with roughly the power of a Raspberry Pi. Probably slightly less than that; but yeah, you're probably not going to have a good time trying to use an ESP32 as a client. I don't see that as a huge drawback.
  - progval 5y ago
    > There's a Matrix plugin for Weechat There are two: * https://github.com/poljar/weechat-matrix https://github.com/poljar/weechat-matrix is in maintenance mode, and in beta according to https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/weechat-matrix/ https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/weechat-matrix/ * https://github.com/poljar/weechat-matrix-rs https://github.com/poljar/weechat-matrix-rs is a "work in progress and doesn't do much yet"
    - c22 5y ago
      There's also an older Lua version: https://github.com/torhve/weechat-matrix-protocol-script https://github.com/torhve/weechat-matrix-protocol-script
- SSLy 5y ago
  But we shouldn't held UX ransom by such hardware. Martix has TUI clients too.
  - welterde 5y ago
    Currently playing with Matrix a bit and I have to say that most of the TUI clients are pretty terrible still. The desktop clients are not much better, they either have mobile UI but on desktop or are quite buggy still. And what they all have in common is that they are quite slow as well, despite local homeserver running off an nvme ssd. None of the ones I have tried come even close to UX of pretty much any desktop IRC client.
    - Arathorn 5y ago
      weechat-matrix should be pretty great, given the TUI is... well, weechat, which is a pretty great IRC TUI?
      - welterde 5y ago
        That had some weird interactions with some of the other scripts I was running. There were some known incompatibilities that were still being worked on - and now it's being rewritten in rust? In any case, I wasn't having a great time with the python version of it. So went with a more native TUI application (gomuks) and didn't really enjoy that either (scrolling broken, weird mouse behavior, unread messages got stuck on some channels and in other rooms it didn't show any unread messages at all, stuck room that I already left and some other issues that annoyed me). Then I thought I give some desktop applications a go (quaternion, spectral, nheko, mirage and last I tried was neochat) and they fell into roughly two categories: ok-ish UX but too buggy to be usable or work but have UI designed for mobile but on desktop (which is a no-go for me). That's where I am with my quest for a decent matrix client. I haven't tried _all_ desktop clients yet, but there are not that many non-electron/browser based ones left I think.
      - anthk 5y ago
        >which is a pretty great IRC TUI? Catgirl, or some patched mpu irc.
  - coldpie 5y ago
    It really doesn't. The best option is weechat-matrix, but that's already a dead project. The lack of good client diversity is what is holding me back from using Matrix.
- na85 5y ago
  I like IRC a lot but I don't see this as an advantage of IRC. To a first approximation, zero people are connecting to IRC via netcat.
  - anthk 5y ago
    It's an example on the trivialness on using it, you can get a client anywhere, like gopher. SSL/TLS is broken and you need help over IRC? No problem. Your main PC broke and all you have is a 486/Amiga/Atari or even some PDA connected to the router with a gateway? No issues again. You just have a installed base, your pkg manager is broken and all you have is netcat, a shell and Unix utilities? Go on.
    - na85 5y ago
      >SSL/TLS is broken and you need help over IRC? No problem. Your main PC broke and all you have is a 486/Amiga/Atari or even some PDA connected to the router with a gateway? No issues again. >You just have a installed base, your pkg manager is broken and all you have is netcat, a shell and Unix utilities? Go on. I understood what you meant. But when would any of those scenarios occur and you don't have your phone, and thus access to Matrix/Discord/whatever? IRC has awful UX on a phone, and I say this as a guy with a sophisticated weechat+Pushbullet setup going on. The benefits of being able to get on IRC from your NetBSD toaster aren't really benefits at all because you always have a phone. Users want slack/discord-like presence. They want push notifications on hilights. They don't want to have to futz about with znc or tmux+irssi. IRC failed to keep up with the tastes of modern users and that's why it's been slowly hemorrhaging users for 15 years.
      - welterde 5y ago
        > They want push notifications on hilights. Huh? Pretty much all mobile irc clients have that though? And if you are running weechat anyway, something like weechat-android might be an better option for you? That connects back to weechat using the weechat relay protocol.
        5y ago

Matrix is still far ahead of IRC while still being open.

anthk 5y ago

You can run an IRC client in really limited machines. You can have a client even with Netcat and SH.

curryst 5y ago
Machines that can't run Matrix is a pretty small subset. There's a Matrix plugin for Weechat, so you should be able to connect from anything with roughly the power of a Raspberry Pi. Probably slightly less than that; but yeah, you're probably not going to have a good time trying to use an ESP32 as a client. I don't see that as a huge drawback.
- progval 5y ago
  > There's a Matrix plugin for Weechat There are two: * https://github.com/poljar/weechat-matrix https://github.com/poljar/weechat-matrix is in maintenance mode, and in beta according to https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/weechat-matrix/ https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/weechat-matrix/ * https://github.com/poljar/weechat-matrix-rs https://github.com/poljar/weechat-matrix-rs is a "work in progress and doesn't do much yet"
  - c22 5y ago
    There's also an older Lua version: https://github.com/torhve/weechat-matrix-protocol-script https://github.com/torhve/weechat-matrix-protocol-script
SSLy 5y ago
But we shouldn't held UX ransom by such hardware. Martix has TUI clients too.
- welterde 5y ago
  Currently playing with Matrix a bit and I have to say that most of the TUI clients are pretty terrible still. The desktop clients are not much better, they either have mobile UI but on desktop or are quite buggy still. And what they all have in common is that they are quite slow as well, despite local homeserver running off an nvme ssd. None of the ones I have tried come even close to UX of pretty much any desktop IRC client.
  - Arathorn 5y ago
    weechat-matrix should be pretty great, given the TUI is... well, weechat, which is a pretty great IRC TUI?
    - welterde 5y ago
      That had some weird interactions with some of the other scripts I was running. There were some known incompatibilities that were still being worked on - and now it's being rewritten in rust? In any case, I wasn't having a great time with the python version of it. So went with a more native TUI application (gomuks) and didn't really enjoy that either (scrolling broken, weird mouse behavior, unread messages got stuck on some channels and in other rooms it didn't show any unread messages at all, stuck room that I already left and some other issues that annoyed me). Then I thought I give some desktop applications a go (quaternion, spectral, nheko, mirage and last I tried was neochat) and they fell into roughly two categories: ok-ish UX but too buggy to be usable or work but have UI designed for mobile but on desktop (which is a no-go for me). That's where I am with my quest for a decent matrix client. I haven't tried _all_ desktop clients yet, but there are not that many non-electron/browser based ones left I think.
    - anthk 5y ago
      >which is a pretty great IRC TUI? Catgirl, or some patched mpu irc.
- coldpie 5y ago
  It really doesn't. The best option is weechat-matrix, but that's already a dead project. The lack of good client diversity is what is holding me back from using Matrix.
na85 5y ago
I like IRC a lot but I don't see this as an advantage of IRC. To a first approximation, zero people are connecting to IRC via netcat.
- anthk 5y ago
  It's an example on the trivialness on using it, you can get a client anywhere, like gopher. SSL/TLS is broken and you need help over IRC? No problem. Your main PC broke and all you have is a 486/Amiga/Atari or even some PDA connected to the router with a gateway? No issues again. You just have a installed base, your pkg manager is broken and all you have is netcat, a shell and Unix utilities? Go on.
  - na85 5y ago
    >SSL/TLS is broken and you need help over IRC? No problem. Your main PC broke and all you have is a 486/Amiga/Atari or even some PDA connected to the router with a gateway? No issues again. >You just have a installed base, your pkg manager is broken and all you have is netcat, a shell and Unix utilities? Go on. I understood what you meant. But when would any of those scenarios occur and you don't have your phone, and thus access to Matrix/Discord/whatever? IRC has awful UX on a phone, and I say this as a guy with a sophisticated weechat+Pushbullet setup going on. The benefits of being able to get on IRC from your NetBSD toaster aren't really benefits at all because you always have a phone. Users want slack/discord-like presence. They want push notifications on hilights. They don't want to have to futz about with znc or tmux+irssi. IRC failed to keep up with the tastes of modern users and that's why it's been slowly hemorrhaging users for 15 years.
    - welterde 5y ago
      > They want push notifications on hilights. Huh? Pretty much all mobile irc clients have that though? And if you are running weechat anyway, something like weechat-android might be an better option for you? That connects back to weechat using the weechat relay protocol.
      - 5y ago