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Yet the US is still the premier nation that everyone tries to immigrate to, because as a nation it actually works. The same can’t be said of many of the nations

Yet the US is still the premier nation that everyone tries to immigrate to, because as a nation it actually works. The same can’t be said of many of the nations you mentioned, and that was before U.S involvement. The cool narrative of today is to point a finger at the west, but most people I think who espouse this view haven’t had the misery of living under the absolutely nuts regimes that exist in this world.

andrepd 5y ago
>Yet the US is still the premier nation that everyone tries to immigrate to Yes, because they are richest natiom in the world. How is that statement not a complete non sequitur to what was being discussed?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- joyeuse6701 5y ago
  The immediate post I responded to was arguing that the US doesn’t do the right thing, but tries to extract max profits for its big businesses and a bunch of foreign policy mistakes. My point was the US is more than that, and “good” as illustrated by its popularity with immigrants. You can, actually, in this court system receive justice, you can speak your mind at least legally without reprisal. You can leave this nation if you so choose. Being just a “rich” nation isn’t it. There are many rich nations and many not as accommodating.
ClumsyPilot 5y ago
So your argument is: if Finland is a nice place to live, then it has the moral right to invade any country where standards of living are lower? Also before US involvement all countries were colonies, do you think being repeatedly invaded and bombed has any negative effects?
- joyeuse6701 5y ago
  No, it’s not about standards of living, it’s about defending people. If you’re in a position to help then you should! South Vietnam was invaded, South Korea was invaded. Would you prefer South Korea to be a North Korea? I agree bombings, chemical warfare and the like are some of the worst outcomes for people, but what would you suggest for the Koreans under attack? Not my problem? I don’t have the moral authority to get involved? Send aid? What about the Cambodians massacred? No help from anyone and they were absolutely brutally destroyed by the millions. Millions. We haven’t even spoken of the millions in the 20s in Eastern Europe or the Chinese Cultural Revolution. I can’t so easily write off those dead, and I don’t think inaction is the answer, but war.
alienthrowaway 5y ago
> Yet the US is still the premier nation that everyone tries to immigrate to, because as a nation it actually works. Not really - the US looks really attractive from the outside - Hollywood propaganda probably does the heavy lifting. The reality is disappointing. Before I immigrated, I told an American expat friend my plans and he asked me a bewildered "Why?!" and that surprised me a little because "The greatest country on earth" and all that. After my first month in the US, I was legitimately depressed, and I finally understood why he had asked. The reality of living in the US is not close to being as good as it appears from the outside (or as a visitor). Fortunately, I got better at coping but I'm still very much aware of how abnormal and batshit crazy some things are in the US that most Americans are inured to. The (gross) salary and tech scene are good, but almost everything else is worse compared to other developed nations. I probably would have been better off moving to Canada, Germany or the Netherlands (I might do that yet - the 2020 elections were pivotal in my decision to stay put for now)
- babayega2 5y ago
  All my friends are moving to Canada. I intend to go there and buy an apartment for my children next year. USA is not more the dream country to emigrate to.
- mbrodersen 5y ago
  Agree. I decided to move to Australia instead. That was a very good choice!
- joyeuse6701 5y ago
  Sure, if we compare like for like, I suppose other rich nations, those are real alternatives, However, since I’m black I am also aware of the incredibly prevalent casual racism of the other G7. It’s not even a point of discussion it’s so common, and good luck trying to get government help in your language if it isn’t English, or trying to obtain citizenship (Japan).
  - alienthrowaway 5y ago
    Comparing racism vintages is depressing as fuck, but I'll give it a go. I'm black too - I'll take casual racism over whatever the US has going on, which appears to be casual racism and a mix of disregard of, and generalized fear of black people (black men to be specific). One is a threat to my well-being, the other is threat to well-being as well as life and limb. I've never felt uneasy or witnessed people crossing the street to avoid me while cycling through well-to-do neighbourhoods in Amsterdam. I'll take the Gollywog and Schwartz Pete over anxiety-inducing traffic stops any day.
cies 5y ago
That the US (rich) rapes poor nations not something we can critique because people from the poo nations want to immigrate to the US. This is such a bad argument I dont even know where to begin with unpacking. Regimes being bad to their own people (US is also in this category, but not like some poorer countries), is separate from it behaving bad to other nations. Internal affairs vs foreign affairs.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

andrepd 5y ago

>Yet the US is still the premier nation that everyone tries to immigrate to Yes, because they are richest natiom in the world. How is that statement not a complete non sequitur to what was being discussed?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
joyeuse6701 5y ago
The immediate post I responded to was arguing that the US doesn’t do the right thing, but tries to extract max profits for its big businesses and a bunch of foreign policy mistakes. My point was the US is more than that, and “good” as illustrated by its popularity with immigrants. You can, actually, in this court system receive justice, you can speak your mind at least legally without reprisal. You can leave this nation if you so choose. Being just a “rich” nation isn’t it. There are many rich nations and many not as accommodating.

ClumsyPilot 5y ago

So your argument is: if Finland is a nice place to live, then it has the moral right to invade any country where standards of living are lower? Also before US involvement all countries were colonies, do you think being repeatedly invaded and bombed has any negative effects?

joyeuse6701 5y ago
No, it’s not about standards of living, it’s about defending people. If you’re in a position to help then you should! South Vietnam was invaded, South Korea was invaded. Would you prefer South Korea to be a North Korea? I agree bombings, chemical warfare and the like are some of the worst outcomes for people, but what would you suggest for the Koreans under attack? Not my problem? I don’t have the moral authority to get involved? Send aid? What about the Cambodians massacred? No help from anyone and they were absolutely brutally destroyed by the millions. Millions. We haven’t even spoken of the millions in the 20s in Eastern Europe or the Chinese Cultural Revolution. I can’t so easily write off those dead, and I don’t think inaction is the answer, but war.

alienthrowaway 5y ago

> Yet the US is still the premier nation that everyone tries to immigrate to, because as a nation it actually works. Not really - the US looks really attractive from the outside - Hollywood propaganda probably does the heavy lifting. The reality is disappointing. Before I immigrated, I told an American expat friend my plans and he asked me a bewildered "Why?!" and that surprised me a little because "The greatest country on earth" and all that. After my first month in the US, I was legitimately depressed, and I finally understood why he had asked. The reality of living in the US is not close to being as good as it appears from the outside (or as a visitor). Fortunately, I got better at coping but I'm still very much aware of how abnormal and batshit crazy some things are in the US that most Americans are inured to. The (gross) salary and tech scene are good, but almost everything else is worse compared to other developed nations. I probably would have been better off moving to Canada, Germany or the Netherlands (I might do that yet - the 2020 elections were pivotal in my decision to stay put for now)

babayega2 5y ago
All my friends are moving to Canada. I intend to go there and buy an apartment for my children next year. USA is not more the dream country to emigrate to.
mbrodersen 5y ago
Agree. I decided to move to Australia instead. That was a very good choice!
joyeuse6701 5y ago
Sure, if we compare like for like, I suppose other rich nations, those are real alternatives, However, since I’m black I am also aware of the incredibly prevalent casual racism of the other G7. It’s not even a point of discussion it’s so common, and good luck trying to get government help in your language if it isn’t English, or trying to obtain citizenship (Japan).
- alienthrowaway 5y ago
  Comparing racism vintages is depressing as fuck, but I'll give it a go. I'm black too - I'll take casual racism over whatever the US has going on, which appears to be casual racism and a mix of disregard of, and generalized fear of black people (black men to be specific). One is a threat to my well-being, the other is threat to well-being as well as life and limb. I've never felt uneasy or witnessed people crossing the street to avoid me while cycling through well-to-do neighbourhoods in Amsterdam. I'll take the Gollywog and Schwartz Pete over anxiety-inducing traffic stops any day.

cies 5y ago

That the US (rich) rapes poor nations not something we can critique because people from the poo nations want to immigrate to the US. This is such a bad argument I dont even know where to begin with unpacking. Regimes being bad to their own people (US is also in this category, but not like some poorer countries), is separate from it behaving bad to other nations. Internal affairs vs foreign affairs.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]