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Because it's one of the rare still used open protocol supported by multiple servers and clients implementations and not backed by single corporate entity. In s

Because it's one of the rare still used open protocol supported by multiple servers and clients implementations and not backed by single corporate entity. In short there are other new technologies, but most of them are corporate walled gardens, or small open source projects that only have one server/client implementation, and few servers under control of single entity. The Matrix ecosystem is the only thing I can think of, that could eventually replace IRC. (There might be others, I am just not familiar with them) End even if they are somehow similar, discussions on Discord and Slack and other similar platforms are different than on IRC, at least in my experience. One defining future of IRC at least channels I frequent and Discords/Slacks/Matrix is less memes and animated things grabbing your attention. Another big thing is, that new stuff like Discord/Slack/Matrix are combination of messenger and discussion forum, while IRC is discussion only. I almost never bother reading chat history in IRC, but in Slacks/... you are expected to keep up with @mentions and on "important channels" etc. IRC is more of a tavern room, you come in have discussion with people currently in, some people come some people go during that and then you leave and that is that. While on newer apps you are expected to keep up. I don't know how to describe it better, but fore me that's the biggest difference.

lolmatrixx 5y ago
> The Matrix ecosystem is the only thing I can think of, that could eventually replace IRC. (There might be others, I am just not familiar with them) There is no ecosystem, despite public documentation of the "protocol," Synapse is the actual standard when it comes to Matrix, so it's your only homeserver choice. Element is the only client. These are both produced by a for profit company. They're no different than Rocket Chat or Mattermost but with way less honest marketing towards hackers. Also, the federation is fake (stops working when matrix.org goes down) and the identity to Matrix ID mapping is centralized at vector.im -- if you want a silo you can host your own identity mapping server, but then you can't be found on the wider network. Matrix is a joke. It's a series of grant deliverables flying in formation and pretending to be a protocol. Oh and the CEO is wildly unprofessional, he's on here all the time as Arathorn in any thread about Matrix, spreading FUD about other networks and selling lies about his to gullible nerds Matrix sucks. Modern XMPP is literally better in every way, and also still sucks. But at least federation is real, in XMPP.
- Mediterraneo10 5y ago
  There are multiple Matrix clients in common use. It is odd that you think Element is the only client.
  - coldpie 5y ago
    It's a brand-new user named "lolmatrixx". Don't waste your time.
- q3k 5y ago
  > federation is fake (stops working when matrix.org goes down) Can you elaborate on this, or link to some relevant resources?
  - SAI_Peregrinus 5y ago
    Matrix requires registration with some server. These servers are federated, but the biggest and most commonly used one is matrix.org. So if that's down, most users lose access.
    - q3k 5y ago
      But that's not fake federation, that's just federation and the reality that most people that can't be bothered to set up their own federated server? You can say that a fully distributed chat system would be better at this (like SSB [1]), but that's a totally different beast from a federated system. Matrix's federation is no worse than any other popular federated system I've used (eg. email and xmpp). I'm not saying it shouldn't be better (I dislike the matrix.org centralization, too), but that's not something inherent to Matrix, and I think it's not honest to bring it up as 'fake federation' in this context. Additionally, Matrix is significantly better at this in one way than the alternatives: even if matrix.org goes down, all rooms can continue working, even ones with a :matrix.org label. The same can't be said about XMPP MUC, IIUC. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Scuttlebutt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Scuttlebutt
      - 5y ago
cecilpl2 5y ago
> I almost never bother reading chat history in IRC, but in Slacks/... you are expected to keep up with @mentions and on "important channels" etc. Isn't that more of a feature of the kinds of environments that run Slack vs IRC? If my office used IRC for communication, I'd still be expected to keep up on all important channels and pings.
- lacksconfidence 5y ago
  My office uses IRC for communication. Actual realtime communication. Announcements and any communication that you need to read at any time other than "now" comes over email lists.
zamalek 5y ago
> The Matrix ecosystem is the only thing I can think of, that could eventually replace IRC. This seems like it should have been the logical conclusion. While IRC is a free protocol, this whole controversy has shown that you aren't ultimately in control of your channels. With Matrix/<other-federated>, it simply wouldn't be possible for a hostile actor to claim ownership of their channels (unless Gentoo itself were somehow the victim of a hostile takeover). Libera certainly has a good few decades of trustworthy service, as Freenode once did, but the protocol is itself built on vulnerable assumptions. There's no way to guarantee that Libera won't have a dramawave of its own 15 years down the line. > While on newer apps you are expected to keep up. I completely agree with this. I've been auto-kicked from Matrix channels for inactivity/lurking, which is ridiculous. This could be solved with more client and server diversity - it wouldn't be hard to create an IRC-like experience on Matrix at all.
- progval 5y ago
  > With Matrix/<other-federated>, it simply wouldn't be possible for a hostile actor to claim ownership of their channels Can't matrix.org staff hijack rooms hosted on the matrix.org homeserver?
  - zamalek 5y ago
    Yes, my argument is for running your own server. The matrix.org wouldn't be able to do anything to the gentoo.org server. If you choose to use the matrix.org homeserver, then the risks are identical to IRC.
    - progval 5y ago
      You can also run your own IRC server. Risks are the same either way.
      - ptman 5y ago
        IRC networks are a closed federation. The servers have to trust each other and all servers of a network are usually administered by the same staff. Matrix is an open federation like email. The servers just speak the same protocol to each other and messages flow even if the server admins never have any interaction.

lolmatrixx 5y ago

> The Matrix ecosystem is the only thing I can think of, that could eventually replace IRC. (There might be others, I am just not familiar with them) There is no ecosystem, despite public documentation of the "protocol," Synapse is the actual standard when it comes to Matrix, so it's your only homeserver choice. Element is the only client. These are both produced by a for profit company. They're no different than Rocket Chat or Mattermost but with way less honest marketing towards hackers. Also, the federation is fake (stops working when matrix.org goes down) and the identity to Matrix ID mapping is centralized at vector.im -- if you want a silo you can host your own identity mapping server, but then you can't be found on the wider network. Matrix is a joke. It's a series of grant deliverables flying in formation and pretending to be a protocol. Oh and the CEO is wildly unprofessional, he's on here all the time as Arathorn in any thread about Matrix, spreading FUD about other networks and selling lies about his to gullible nerds Matrix sucks. Modern XMPP is literally better in every way, and also still sucks. But at least federation is real, in XMPP.

Mediterraneo10 5y ago
There are multiple Matrix clients in common use. It is odd that you think Element is the only client.
- coldpie 5y ago
  It's a brand-new user named "lolmatrixx". Don't waste your time.
q3k 5y ago
> federation is fake (stops working when matrix.org goes down) Can you elaborate on this, or link to some relevant resources?
- SAI_Peregrinus 5y ago
  Matrix requires registration with some server. These servers are federated, but the biggest and most commonly used one is matrix.org. So if that's down, most users lose access.
  - q3k 5y ago
    But that's not fake federation, that's just federation and the reality that most people that can't be bothered to set up their own federated server? You can say that a fully distributed chat system would be better at this (like SSB [1]), but that's a totally different beast from a federated system. Matrix's federation is no worse than any other popular federated system I've used (eg. email and xmpp). I'm not saying it shouldn't be better (I dislike the matrix.org centralization, too), but that's not something inherent to Matrix, and I think it's not honest to bring it up as 'fake federation' in this context. Additionally, Matrix is significantly better at this in one way than the alternatives: even if matrix.org goes down, all rooms can continue working, even ones with a :matrix.org label. The same can't be said about XMPP MUC, IIUC. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Scuttlebutt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Scuttlebutt
    - 5y ago

cecilpl2 5y ago

> I almost never bother reading chat history in IRC, but in Slacks/... you are expected to keep up with @mentions and on "important channels" etc. Isn't that more of a feature of the kinds of environments that run Slack vs IRC? If my office used IRC for communication, I'd still be expected to keep up on all important channels and pings.

lacksconfidence 5y ago
My office uses IRC for communication. Actual realtime communication. Announcements and any communication that you need to read at any time other than "now" comes over email lists.

zamalek 5y ago

> The Matrix ecosystem is the only thing I can think of, that could eventually replace IRC. This seems like it should have been the logical conclusion. While IRC is a free protocol, this whole controversy has shown that you aren't ultimately in control of your channels. With Matrix/<other-federated>, it simply wouldn't be possible for a hostile actor to claim ownership of their channels (unless Gentoo itself were somehow the victim of a hostile takeover). Libera certainly has a good few decades of trustworthy service, as Freenode once did, but the protocol is itself built on vulnerable assumptions. There's no way to guarantee that Libera won't have a dramawave of its own 15 years down the line. > While on newer apps you are expected to keep up. I completely agree with this. I've been auto-kicked from Matrix channels for inactivity/lurking, which is ridiculous. This could be solved with more client and server diversity - it wouldn't be hard to create an IRC-like experience on Matrix at all.

progval 5y ago
> With Matrix/<other-federated>, it simply wouldn't be possible for a hostile actor to claim ownership of their channels Can't matrix.org staff hijack rooms hosted on the matrix.org homeserver?
- zamalek 5y ago
  Yes, my argument is for running your own server. The matrix.org wouldn't be able to do anything to the gentoo.org server. If you choose to use the matrix.org homeserver, then the risks are identical to IRC.
  - progval 5y ago
    You can also run your own IRC server. Risks are the same either way.
    - ptman 5y ago
      IRC networks are a closed federation. The servers have to trust each other and all servers of a network are usually administered by the same staff. Matrix is an open federation like email. The servers just speak the same protocol to each other and messages flow even if the server admins never have any interaction.