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People are starting to call it "Leenode" to honor Freenode's legacy. RIP one of the epic IRC servers. It's strange that the downfall of the server is very simi

People are starting to call it "Leenode" to honor Freenode's legacy. RIP one of the epic IRC servers. It's strange that the downfall of the server is very similar to the downfall of a business. It's eerie how similar the mismanagement is. Or at least, what I saw at some past companies.

pluc 5y ago
If Game of Thrones were an IRC network
chaorace 5y ago
What I find more interesting is how singlehandedly Libera ate Freenode's lunch. You might expect all of these FOSS communities to splinter apart, but they all seem to be gravitating toward the same place. I wonder what the story behind that is?
- haasn 5y ago
  This is not true, many are moving to OFTC. But the obvious answer is, Libera is run by the ex-freenode staffers, and runs on the same software. (Unlike OFTC) So Libera is basically Freenode's spiritual successor with a different name.
  - c0l0 5y ago
    I don't see that (some communities opting for libera.chat, some for OFTC) as a problem, though. Recent events show that some amount of IRC network diversity can only be a good thing.
  - est31 5y ago
    While you are right that Libera is ran by former freenode operators, it's not 100% the same software. When you connect to freenode the server tells you it's running ircd-seven-1.1.9, while libera tells you it runs on solanum-1.0-dev. OTC says hybrid-7.2.2+oftc1.7.3.
    - marcan_42 5y ago
      AIUI the old freenode folks had been working on solanum for a while now, and this was the perfect time to switch to it. So it's not the same software, but it's the spiritual successor too.
    - hnlmorg 5y ago
      Freenode was in the process of migrating to Solanum but this was one of the projects that Lee halted (and in a very underhanded way too). So it makes sense that Libra runs Solanum
- daenney 5y ago
  There are some projects that are also moving off IRC entirely now, which likely would've stuck around for a while longer if not for the Freenode debacle. Unfortunately some are also moving to entirely closed source platforms like Discord.
  - omegote 5y ago
    > Unfortunately some are also moving to entirely closed source platforms like Discord From an openness point of view, yes, that's unfortunate. But discord channels are arguably way more useful than IRC nowadays. The mere message persistence is something that tips the scale in favour of Discord.
    - foobar33333 5y ago
      Matrix is still far ahead of IRC while still being open.
      - anthk 5y ago
        You can run an IRC client in really limited machines. You can have a client even with Netcat and SH.
        curryst 5y ago
        Machines that can't run Matrix is a pretty small subset. There's a Matrix plugin for Weechat, so you should be able to connect from anything with roughly the power of a Raspberry Pi. Probably slightly less than that; but yeah, you're probably not going to have a good time trying to use an ESP32 as a client. I don't see that as a huge drawback.
        progval 5y ago
        > There's a Matrix plugin for Weechat There are two: * https://github.com/poljar/weechat-matrix https://github.com/poljar/weechat-matrix is in maintenance mode, and in beta according to https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/weechat-matrix/ https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/weechat-matrix/ * https://github.com/poljar/weechat-matrix-rs https://github.com/poljar/weechat-matrix-rs is a "work in progress and doesn't do much yet"
- mariuolo 5y ago
  > Libera ate Freenode's lunch The part that leaves me perplexed the most is that said lunch is two crackers with cream cheese. How much money could there be in running an IRC network?
  - blihp 5y ago
    If you could slowly dial up the ads while retaining most of the users, probably a decent amount as a small business. However, this approach has been tried and failed repeatedly. Strangely, open source folks often see this stuff coming and scatter / relocate before the 'profit' stage is ever reached.
newsclues 5y ago
Businesses are just organized groups of people, for the purpose of profit, the leadership and management dynamics apply to any human group
duxup 5y ago
I think a lot of things attributed to 'business' or other things, are really just human nature.
cmsj 5y ago
Speaking of business, the UK company that technically owns freenode (Freenode Limited) is currently in a state where it's likely to be forcibly dissolved, because it hasn't filed any paperwork in some time: https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/10308021 https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/c...
- techrat 5y ago
  And Christel Dahlskjaer was (still is, the CCO) an employee of Lee's company, Private Internet Access, when she sold Freenode Networks to Freenode Limited. It wasn't hers to sell, even in her capacity of head of Freenode Staff at the time.
  - phobox360 5y ago
    Lee ows PIA? That explains a bit. I have an interent distrust of big VPNs whose ads are so prolific all over the place. Same reason I won't use Nord.
    - Macha 5y ago
      He did own PIA but not for a few years, he sold it to a different (but with its own shady past) company in 2019
      - artificialLimbs 5y ago
        Any recommendations today for hosted vpn?
        Macha 5y ago
        I don't use any such services, so you'll need to ask elsewhere.
        bjoli 5y ago
        I made a choice based on one thing: the ones that advertise are all peddling complete bullshit. They make claims anyone that know anything about computers understand are borderline lies. They are owned in weird structures in jurisdictions nobody knows much about. I chose one in my home country (which is 18 eyes or something like that, but that matters less to me) Sweden. I use Mullvad. I have been very happy. I have gotten good support, almost no overhead on a 200mbit/s connection and very little traffic disruption. I am not involved with them in any way other than being a satisfied user.
agumonkey 5y ago
Is freenode having its sourceforge moment ? In 10 years abandoned and then revived by normal people?

pluc 5y ago

If Game of Thrones were an IRC network

chaorace 5y ago

What I find more interesting is how singlehandedly Libera ate Freenode's lunch. You might expect all of these FOSS communities to splinter apart, but they all seem to be gravitating toward the same place. I wonder what the story behind that is?

haasn 5y ago
This is not true, many are moving to OFTC. But the obvious answer is, Libera is run by the ex-freenode staffers, and runs on the same software. (Unlike OFTC) So Libera is basically Freenode's spiritual successor with a different name.
- c0l0 5y ago
  I don't see that (some communities opting for libera.chat, some for OFTC) as a problem, though. Recent events show that some amount of IRC network diversity can only be a good thing.
- est31 5y ago
  While you are right that Libera is ran by former freenode operators, it's not 100% the same software. When you connect to freenode the server tells you it's running ircd-seven-1.1.9, while libera tells you it runs on solanum-1.0-dev. OTC says hybrid-7.2.2+oftc1.7.3.
  - marcan_42 5y ago
    AIUI the old freenode folks had been working on solanum for a while now, and this was the perfect time to switch to it. So it's not the same software, but it's the spiritual successor too.
  - hnlmorg 5y ago
    Freenode was in the process of migrating to Solanum but this was one of the projects that Lee halted (and in a very underhanded way too). So it makes sense that Libra runs Solanum
daenney 5y ago
There are some projects that are also moving off IRC entirely now, which likely would've stuck around for a while longer if not for the Freenode debacle. Unfortunately some are also moving to entirely closed source platforms like Discord.
- omegote 5y ago
  > Unfortunately some are also moving to entirely closed source platforms like Discord From an openness point of view, yes, that's unfortunate. But discord channels are arguably way more useful than IRC nowadays. The mere message persistence is something that tips the scale in favour of Discord.
  - foobar33333 5y ago
    Matrix is still far ahead of IRC while still being open.
    - anthk 5y ago
      You can run an IRC client in really limited machines. You can have a client even with Netcat and SH.
      - curryst 5y ago
        Machines that can't run Matrix is a pretty small subset. There's a Matrix plugin for Weechat, so you should be able to connect from anything with roughly the power of a Raspberry Pi. Probably slightly less than that; but yeah, you're probably not going to have a good time trying to use an ESP32 as a client. I don't see that as a huge drawback.
        progval 5y ago
        > There's a Matrix plugin for Weechat There are two: * https://github.com/poljar/weechat-matrix https://github.com/poljar/weechat-matrix is in maintenance mode, and in beta according to https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/weechat-matrix/ https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/weechat-matrix/ * https://github.com/poljar/weechat-matrix-rs https://github.com/poljar/weechat-matrix-rs is a "work in progress and doesn't do much yet"
mariuolo 5y ago
> Libera ate Freenode's lunch The part that leaves me perplexed the most is that said lunch is two crackers with cream cheese. How much money could there be in running an IRC network?
- blihp 5y ago
  If you could slowly dial up the ads while retaining most of the users, probably a decent amount as a small business. However, this approach has been tried and failed repeatedly. Strangely, open source folks often see this stuff coming and scatter / relocate before the 'profit' stage is ever reached.

newsclues 5y ago

Businesses are just organized groups of people, for the purpose of profit, the leadership and management dynamics apply to any human group

duxup 5y ago

I think a lot of things attributed to 'business' or other things, are really just human nature.

cmsj 5y ago

Speaking of business, the UK company that technically owns freenode (Freenode Limited) is currently in a state where it's likely to be forcibly dissolved, because it hasn't filed any paperwork in some time: https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/10308021 https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/c...

techrat 5y ago
And Christel Dahlskjaer was (still is, the CCO) an employee of Lee's company, Private Internet Access, when she sold Freenode Networks to Freenode Limited. It wasn't hers to sell, even in her capacity of head of Freenode Staff at the time.
- phobox360 5y ago
  Lee ows PIA? That explains a bit. I have an interent distrust of big VPNs whose ads are so prolific all over the place. Same reason I won't use Nord.
  - Macha 5y ago
    He did own PIA but not for a few years, he sold it to a different (but with its own shady past) company in 2019
    - artificialLimbs 5y ago
      Any recommendations today for hosted vpn?
      - Macha 5y ago
        I don't use any such services, so you'll need to ask elsewhere.
      - bjoli 5y ago
        I made a choice based on one thing: the ones that advertise are all peddling complete bullshit. They make claims anyone that know anything about computers understand are borderline lies. They are owned in weird structures in jurisdictions nobody knows much about. I chose one in my home country (which is 18 eyes or something like that, but that matters less to me) Sweden. I use Mullvad. I have been very happy. I have gotten good support, almost no overhead on a 200mbit/s connection and very little traffic disruption. I am not involved with them in any way other than being a satisfied user.

agumonkey 5y ago

Is freenode having its sourceforge moment ? In 10 years abandoned and then revived by normal people?