3 ms·

Pardon my ignorance, but what does it mean when your Freenode channel gets hijacked? As in the original admins does not have any control anymore?

kekebo 5y ago
Basically, yes. Here's a log of how that may look like: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27287039 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27287039
- syntaxing 5y ago
  Whoa, that’s interesting. Seems like they made a bot to do this anytime a channel mentions Libera
q3k 5y ago
Yes. For any #foo that contained `libera.chat` in the topic, #foo was grabbed from all existing chanserv ops and is now managed by freenode-placeholder-account. A +ifm ##foo was set up: No one who's still on #foo can speak there, and any attempt to join redirects to ##foo. In addition, a ##foo got created if it didn't exist. If created, it is also managed by freenode-placeholder-account.
- syntaxing 5y ago
  Wow that’s crazier than I thought, thank you for the explanation!
- im3w1l 5y ago
  > A +ifm ##foo was set up: No one who's still on #foo can speak there, and any attempt to join redirects to ##foo. I'm not super familiar with irc, what is the significance of this? What does creating a second channel accomplish?
  - Jemaclus 5y ago
    The ## implies "unofficial" channel, so if you have #lego and ##lego then #lego is the "official" channel that is claimed by the official Lego corporation, and ##lego is unofficial people helping out. The +ifm refers to channel "modes". +i is "invitation only", meaning that you can't join a channel you haven't been invited to. This isn't good for FOSS things, because anyone should be able to join. +f generally is anti-flooding, so you get kicked out of the channel if you send more than X messages per Y period of time, and +m is "moderated" or "mute" meaning that everyone in the channel can see what is being said, but only people that have been approved can actually chat. Again, not really conducive to the spirit of FOSS.
    - im3w1l 5y ago
      Your explanation only makes things more confusing. So if you try to join #foo you are redirected to ##foo which is invitation only, which just means you fail to join? Why not just make #foo invitation only instead? And why are there still people in #foo? Why not kick them?
      - Jemaclus 5y ago
        Sorry, so what happened was #foo was made invite only (+i), moderated (+m), and throttled (+f), so anyone who is in #foo is silenced and can't chat. Simultaneously, everyone was added to ##foo which is neither moderated nor invite-only. Freenode will grant operator access to #foo if you can prove that you're the official person for #foo, somehow. (I don't know the process). Once you have proven that, the new operator can change the modes again and make it open to everyone (or not). Last night, hundreds of channels were effectively closed by muting everyone and making the channels invite-only and kicking everyone over to the ##foo unofficial channels. > Why not kick them? No idea.
dragontamer 5y ago
"Admin" is someone running the server itself. Since they have physical access and/or root access to the actual underlying machine, they can do whatever they want. "Operators" are people who create channels on an IRC-server / network. Anyone can be an operator. The closest analogue would be a Reddit moderator. You become an operator by simply being the first one to create any channel. By doing so, you gain moderation powers: you can mute individuals, kick them out of the channel, change the topic, and name new "operators" and "half-operators" (a lieutenant: a half-operator can do everything an operator can do except name other operators. Operators can remove each other, so its a bit dangerous to promote people to operator). There are "Squatting" issues of course: someone may "squat" on a name (ex: I probably can create the #gentoo channel if I am the first one to make the channel, and then squat on the name holding it hostage), but that's what admins are for, to fix those little problems. Normally, the admins would hijack the channel from a squatter, and return it to its rightful owner (ie: making sure the "Operator" is truly a representative of the #gentoo project, and not just some dude who logged in at just the right time). -------- What's going on is that FreeNode's administrators are seemingly hijacking channels that simply mention the competitor "libra.chat". Which is... not cool.

kekebo 5y ago

Basically, yes. Here's a log of how that may look like: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27287039 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27287039

syntaxing 5y ago
Whoa, that’s interesting. Seems like they made a bot to do this anytime a channel mentions Libera

q3k 5y ago

Yes. For any #foo that contained `libera.chat` in the topic, #foo was grabbed from all existing chanserv ops and is now managed by freenode-placeholder-account. A +ifm ##foo was set up: No one who's still on #foo can speak there, and any attempt to join redirects to ##foo. In addition, a ##foo got created if it didn't exist. If created, it is also managed by freenode-placeholder-account.

syntaxing 5y ago
Wow that’s crazier than I thought, thank you for the explanation!
im3w1l 5y ago
> A +ifm ##foo was set up: No one who's still on #foo can speak there, and any attempt to join redirects to ##foo. I'm not super familiar with irc, what is the significance of this? What does creating a second channel accomplish?
- Jemaclus 5y ago
  The ## implies "unofficial" channel, so if you have #lego and ##lego then #lego is the "official" channel that is claimed by the official Lego corporation, and ##lego is unofficial people helping out. The +ifm refers to channel "modes". +i is "invitation only", meaning that you can't join a channel you haven't been invited to. This isn't good for FOSS things, because anyone should be able to join. +f generally is anti-flooding, so you get kicked out of the channel if you send more than X messages per Y period of time, and +m is "moderated" or "mute" meaning that everyone in the channel can see what is being said, but only people that have been approved can actually chat. Again, not really conducive to the spirit of FOSS.
  - im3w1l 5y ago
    Your explanation only makes things more confusing. So if you try to join #foo you are redirected to ##foo which is invitation only, which just means you fail to join? Why not just make #foo invitation only instead? And why are there still people in #foo? Why not kick them?
    - Jemaclus 5y ago
      Sorry, so what happened was #foo was made invite only (+i), moderated (+m), and throttled (+f), so anyone who is in #foo is silenced and can't chat. Simultaneously, everyone was added to ##foo which is neither moderated nor invite-only. Freenode will grant operator access to #foo if you can prove that you're the official person for #foo, somehow. (I don't know the process). Once you have proven that, the new operator can change the modes again and make it open to everyone (or not). Last night, hundreds of channels were effectively closed by muting everyone and making the channels invite-only and kicking everyone over to the ##foo unofficial channels. > Why not kick them? No idea.

dragontamer 5y ago

"Admin" is someone running the server itself. Since they have physical access and/or root access to the actual underlying machine, they can do whatever they want. "Operators" are people who create channels on an IRC-server / network. Anyone can be an operator. The closest analogue would be a Reddit moderator. You become an operator by simply being the first one to create any channel. By doing so, you gain moderation powers: you can mute individuals, kick them out of the channel, change the topic, and name new "operators" and "half-operators" (a lieutenant: a half-operator can do everything an operator can do except name other operators. Operators can remove each other, so its a bit dangerous to promote people to operator). There are "Squatting" issues of course: someone may "squat" on a name (ex: I probably can create the #gentoo channel if I am the first one to make the channel, and then squat on the name holding it hostage), but that's what admins are for, to fix those little problems. Normally, the admins would hijack the channel from a squatter, and return it to its rightful owner (ie: making sure the "Operator" is truly a representative of the #gentoo project, and not just some dude who logged in at just the right time). -------- What's going on is that FreeNode's administrators are seemingly hijacking channels that simply mention the competitor "libra.chat". Which is... not cool.