5 ms·

You're right, snap decisions are the best... don't bother to get input or even really consider your options. Just flip a coin and yolo it, right?

raverbashing 5y ago
You're picking an IRC server, not your favourite kid. Bike shedding is real.
- grayhatter 5y ago
  It's not bike shedding to make sure interested parties all get heard. My community didn't switch before this cluster fuck because we were waiting for someone who's important but only online for a weekend every few weeks or so. Just because you don't care, doesn't make it unimportant.
- detaro 5y ago
  Because leaving X% of the channel that relies on Matrix bridges behind, rushing admins of bots etc, and making people feel like you didn't even give them a chance to say something about it are all great things for a community.
  - immibis 5y ago
    Because staying on a network where nobody has control of their own channels is great for a community.
    - detaro 5y ago
      because you clearly knew that waiting for 2 weeks wouldn't be ok?
  - edwardkmett 5y ago
    This has been the major reason why #haskell didn't try to move more forcefully. We'd like to get some of the old logging bots moved over, etc. We have some number of users who connect from tor, from matrix, or from webchat that simply can't move right now. These are things being looked at from the libera.chat side, but that work isn't done. I very much value those users being able to continue to ask and get their questions answered. That said, we used to have like 3-4 server ops lurking in the channel, and 15-16 channel ops that were active on the server. We just don't any more. This makes me rather concerned from a spam perspective. On the other hand, there are < 80 people in the channel now, so perhaps spam is less of an issue now that we're a much smaller target.
- tehbeard 5y ago
  > ...your favourite kid Parent of the year, everyone.
TeMPOraL 5y ago
FWIW, there is some merit to raverbashing's argument. I know first-hand that maintaining a community of enthusiastic techies is just like trying to herd cats. They can, and will, debate the pros and cons until heat death of the universe. I know because in communities I've been part of, we could and did debate options endlessly - until someone with enough time on their hands just unilaterally implemented one and then everyone begrudgingly accepted it. Some degree of "do-ocracy" may be necessary - when you can't get the people to decide, sometimes the best option is just to announce a choice and see if people follow you. If they put up resistance, you can revert the choice and pick the other option. But it usually turns out that the ones most eager to continue debating are the ones who actually care the least, and will accept whatever decision was made.

raverbashing 5y ago

You're picking an IRC server, not your favourite kid. Bike shedding is real.

grayhatter 5y ago
It's not bike shedding to make sure interested parties all get heard. My community didn't switch before this cluster fuck because we were waiting for someone who's important but only online for a weekend every few weeks or so. Just because you don't care, doesn't make it unimportant.
detaro 5y ago
Because leaving X% of the channel that relies on Matrix bridges behind, rushing admins of bots etc, and making people feel like you didn't even give them a chance to say something about it are all great things for a community.
- immibis 5y ago
  Because staying on a network where nobody has control of their own channels is great for a community.
  - detaro 5y ago
    because you clearly knew that waiting for 2 weeks wouldn't be ok?
- edwardkmett 5y ago
  This has been the major reason why #haskell didn't try to move more forcefully. We'd like to get some of the old logging bots moved over, etc. We have some number of users who connect from tor, from matrix, or from webchat that simply can't move right now. These are things being looked at from the libera.chat side, but that work isn't done. I very much value those users being able to continue to ask and get their questions answered. That said, we used to have like 3-4 server ops lurking in the channel, and 15-16 channel ops that were active on the server. We just don't any more. This makes me rather concerned from a spam perspective. On the other hand, there are < 80 people in the channel now, so perhaps spam is less of an issue now that we're a much smaller target.
tehbeard 5y ago
> ...your favourite kid Parent of the year, everyone.

TeMPOraL 5y ago

FWIW, there is some merit to raverbashing's argument. I know first-hand that maintaining a community of enthusiastic techies is just like trying to herd cats. They can, and will, debate the pros and cons until heat death of the universe. I know because in communities I've been part of, we could and did debate options endlessly - until someone with enough time on their hands just unilaterally implemented one and then everyone begrudgingly accepted it. Some degree of "do-ocracy" may be necessary - when you can't get the people to decide, sometimes the best option is just to announce a choice and see if people follow you. If they put up resistance, you can revert the choice and pick the other option. But it usually turns out that the ones most eager to continue debating are the ones who actually care the least, and will accept whatever decision was made.