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Just to explore this: what exactly is your objection to the often-cited observation that black people, who are 13% of the population, commit 52% of the violent
by haram_masala 5y ago
Just to explore this: what exactly is your objection to the often-cited observation that black people, who are 13% of the population, commit 52% of the violent crimes? I don’t even know if that’s accurate - if not, then surely that’s the biggest problem with it. But if it’s true, then why is it a dog whistle?
I’m not challenging you here, I’m trying to understand why it’s wrong to state it in this kind of context.
- nemothekid 5y agoBecause most people who use that rhetoric will always imply the disparity exists because of genetic disposition rather than a social one. The logic tree goes from "black people commit a lot of violent crime" to "black people are dangerous" (then from there to other various racist tropes), while ignoring the mountain of other socioeconmic issues. Consider this, if I told you Koreans only make 1% of Japan but they make up 70% of the Yakuza, what would you take away from that? The observation is true. But do you think I'm making a fair implication about Koreans in general? What if I said next that the Japanese police should be free to treat Koreans anyway they fit? Would you agree to that? I hope you would see that as insane, but that is line of reasoning that always happens with 13/52. So currently when I read "black on asian violence is increasing" I'm not sure yet whether I can believe the author is making a fairly reasoned observation about black people ideologically attacking asians, or if they are calling for a "force" to "take a closer look at those black people".
- haram_masala 5y agoYou make a very good point. Regarding the Korean example, I’d conclude that Koreans are more likely to get involved in organized crime in Japan because of structural factors of Japanese society and economy.
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- rkk3 5y agoThey are factually incorrect about 70% of the Yakuza being Korean. "While ethnic Koreans make up only 0.5% of the Japanese population, they are a prominent part of Yakuza ... The Japanese National Police Agency suggested Koreans composed 10% of the Yakuza proper" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakuza#:~:text=According%20to%20a%202006%20speech,percent%20are%20from%20non%2Dburakumin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakuza#:~:text=According%20to%...
- A4ET8a8uTh0 5y agoWould you say that your Korean example is an apt comparison to 13/52? Most people here recognize the trope about lies, lies and statistics and it feels like it now. In a more practical sense, does this statistic matter to an individual on a dark night? Will I fear being called racist as I walk down South Side Chicago on a dark night or 13/52? The choice here is not a choice at all.
- nemothekid 5y agoIf I’m walking down Nishinari on a dark night will I fear being called a racist or 1/70? Upon hearing that I don’t think anyone would focus on the statistic (that I’m implying Koreans are violent) and instead focus on the fact that it’s dangerous because is a high crime neighborhood. Somehow you have missed the point entirely; it’s strange you bring up the lies, damn lies quote but continue to argue the statistic point. In a practical sense, if I were to travel to high crime area in Mexico or Belarus, would it be logical for me to not fear getting mugged because there are no black people? You’ve presented a false choice - you created a situation where you are a likely to mugged for socioeconomic factors and then have walked that back into carrying water for a racist trope.
- rkk3 5y agoSince the Yakuza is only around 10% Ethnically Korean its a bad comparison. Ethnic Koreans are over represented though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakuza#:~:text=According%20to%20a%202006%20speech,percent%20are%20from%20non%2Dburakumin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakuza#:~:text=According%20to%...
- fersho311 5y agoI think it’s more like... any race that endured systemic abuse and live with the limited opportunities will commit majority of the violent crimes. Specifying the race has a tendency to make people correlate the violence with race, which can lead to racism.
- haram_masala 5y agoSo, every race, then.
- simondotau 5y agoWhy is it wrong? Well for one thing, it skates too close to implying direct causation between skin colour and a propensity to engage in violence, when there's a far more obvious line of indirect causation: skin colour –> poverty –> propensity to engage in violence. The link between skin colour and poverty is undeniable—it's right there in the aftermath of slavery and Government-sanctioned racism in the decades hence. The link between poverty and a propensity to engage in violence is also clear. So if poverty is the critical link, if poverty is the underlying cause, why would it ever be useful to talk about levels of violent crime associated with a tangential correlate?
- rafale 5y agoIt's not poverty or skin color that's the issue. It's the culture that encourages violence, promiscuity (attack on the nuclear family) and unaccountability. Other groups, especially first generation immigrants, manage to rise above the challenges of poverty and skin color. I am not only talking about Asians, but black Africans who immigrated in the US recently. Totally different culture, a much better outcome.
- simondotau 5y agoSorry, but all of that is media narrative. You’ve been spending too much time consuming other people’s opinions.