7 ms·

I know you're joking, but "before" the Big Bang doesn't really make sense.

kazinator 5y ago
If so, then "first microsecond of the Big Bang" also doesn't make sense. And that may be the point of the above comment. The only time reference is the one within the universe that is doing the banging, and within that universe, time has no beginning, right? Every microsecond has another microsecond before it.
- azinman2 5y ago
  Unless you’re at t0. It doesn’t have to have a before.
- tshaddox 5y ago
  Not really? It makes sense to ask what happens in the first minute of The Matrix film, but it doesn’t really make sense to ask what happened one minute before that. That particular domain (a specific film) has a pretty clear “beginning time” and apparently this model of the Universe does as well.
  - denton-scratch 5y ago
    Have you seen Memento? It's a murder mystery that scrambles time. Much better than The Matrix. There are two interwoven threads in the film, one in colour and the other in black-and-white. The B+W scenes are in chronological order, the colour scenes run backward in time. Colour and B+W scenes alternate. They meet up at the end - the murder scene, which in any sane movie would be near the beginning. The protagonist has lost his memory, as a result of a bang on the head during the murder; he has no idea what happened "before the beginning".
- caf 5y ago
  There can be a point in time where you can't go further back - all directions point to the future - in the same way that there's a point on Earth where you can't go further North - all directions point South.
noofen 5y ago
Yes, I believe it's called God. Maybe one day we can find a formula!
- alea_iacta_est 5y ago
  > Maybe one day we can find a formula! It'd be horribly depressing.
- mrwnmonm 5y ago
  Science will never say that. Maybe they want to see him or something.
  - behringer 5y ago
    That would be very helpful.
    - mrwnmonm 5y ago
      Do you think that belief would make any sense in that case?
      - behringer 5y ago
        Sure there's even a story about that called Hell is the Absence of God.
wyager 5y ago
The big bang is not a complete cosmological model and does not necessarily preclude things happening before it.
- niceairport 5y ago
  It isn't a complete model, but it's the best one we've got and the most universally agreed upon.
  - meowface 5y ago
    It is, but it's not universally agreed that it's the first event of reality. I think most remain pretty agnostic on that point.
badosu 5y ago
It might make sense if you subscribe to the idea of conformal cyclic cosmology. Where the big bang marks the transition between eons https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conformal_cyclic_cosmology https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conformal_cyclic_cosmology
- gremlinsinc 5y ago
  Could it be we create and always have the big bang by blowing shit up in a particle accelerator, and that is the great filter not just for us, but the rest of the universe since it just starts over?
- denton-scratch 5y ago
  In conformal cyclic cosmology, there are no big bangs. Once everything in the old universe has been reduced to photons, and all the black holes have evaporated, the universe loses its sense of scale, and resumes operation as a universe the size of a grapefruit (or the size of the earth - I don't think it matters). I don't know how Penfold thinks this resizing is supposed to happen, for example whether it's instantaneous or a slow process. I'd love to have a few beers with Penfold; a lot of what he thinks about isn't maths or cosmology, and isn't all fit for publication, but I imagine it must be very interesting.
  - badosu 5y ago
    I condensed my post for brevity, there's no exact defined boundary between aeons or how that transition exactly occurs. One could arguably say it's when there are no fermions from the previous one anymore, but that can be contested.
meowface 5y ago
Not necessarily. I think the physics consensus is they don't quite know if "before the Big Bang" does or doesn't makes sense.

If so, then "first microsecond of the Big Bang" also doesn't make sense. And that may be the point of the above comment. The only time reference is the one within the universe that is doing the banging, and within that universe, time has no beginning, right? Every microsecond has another microsecond before it.

azinman2 5y ago
Unless you’re at t0. It doesn’t have to have a before.
tshaddox 5y ago
Not really? It makes sense to ask what happens in the first minute of The Matrix film, but it doesn’t really make sense to ask what happened one minute before that. That particular domain (a specific film) has a pretty clear “beginning time” and apparently this model of the Universe does as well.
- denton-scratch 5y ago
  Have you seen Memento? It's a murder mystery that scrambles time. Much better than The Matrix. There are two interwoven threads in the film, one in colour and the other in black-and-white. The B+W scenes are in chronological order, the colour scenes run backward in time. Colour and B+W scenes alternate. They meet up at the end - the murder scene, which in any sane movie would be near the beginning. The protagonist has lost his memory, as a result of a bang on the head during the murder; he has no idea what happened "before the beginning".
caf 5y ago
There can be a point in time where you can't go further back - all directions point to the future - in the same way that there's a point on Earth where you can't go further North - all directions point South.

noofen 5y ago

Yes, I believe it's called God. Maybe one day we can find a formula!

alea_iacta_est 5y ago
> Maybe one day we can find a formula! It'd be horribly depressing.
mrwnmonm 5y ago
Science will never say that. Maybe they want to see him or something.
- behringer 5y ago
  That would be very helpful.
  - mrwnmonm 5y ago
    Do you think that belief would make any sense in that case?
    - behringer 5y ago
      Sure there's even a story about that called Hell is the Absence of God.

wyager 5y ago

The big bang is not a complete cosmological model and does not necessarily preclude things happening before it.

niceairport 5y ago
It isn't a complete model, but it's the best one we've got and the most universally agreed upon.
- meowface 5y ago
  It is, but it's not universally agreed that it's the first event of reality. I think most remain pretty agnostic on that point.

badosu 5y ago

It might make sense if you subscribe to the idea of conformal cyclic cosmology. Where the big bang marks the transition between eons https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conformal_cyclic_cosmology https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conformal_cyclic_cosmology

gremlinsinc 5y ago
Could it be we create and always have the big bang by blowing shit up in a particle accelerator, and that is the great filter not just for us, but the rest of the universe since it just starts over?
denton-scratch 5y ago
In conformal cyclic cosmology, there are no big bangs. Once everything in the old universe has been reduced to photons, and all the black holes have evaporated, the universe loses its sense of scale, and resumes operation as a universe the size of a grapefruit (or the size of the earth - I don't think it matters). I don't know how Penfold thinks this resizing is supposed to happen, for example whether it's instantaneous or a slow process. I'd love to have a few beers with Penfold; a lot of what he thinks about isn't maths or cosmology, and isn't all fit for publication, but I imagine it must be very interesting.
- badosu 5y ago
  I condensed my post for brevity, there's no exact defined boundary between aeons or how that transition exactly occurs. One could arguably say it's when there are no fermions from the previous one anymore, but that can be contested.

meowface 5y ago

Not necessarily. I think the physics consensus is they don't quite know if "before the Big Bang" does or doesn't makes sense.