4 ms·

Guilt doesn't solve anything, and individual action doesn't solve anything either. The real solution is almost certainly political, and quite nasty.

just_one_time_ 5y ago
If rich people, like the guys here, stopped flying they could solve a lot of problems
heterodoxxed 5y ago
Public transportation, requiring biodegradable packaging and transitioning our energy grid doesn't have to be nasty.
- javajosh 5y ago
  No, but its certainly not enough.
  - heterodoxxed 5y ago
    Restricting the greatest excesses of the rich and militaries (the US specifically) and some form of aggressive carbon sequestration, but I don't think any of that requires some kind of Year Zero political program.
    - javajosh 5y ago
      Indeed, and they will call it "The SUV war".
      - heterodoxxed 5y ago
        It seems to me this sort of cynicism is more about giving up without a fight than any kind of hardened realism.
        javajosh 5y ago
        I live in Trump country. My faith in humanity is at its nadir. I won't give up, not ever. But I think its clear what will make a difference (e.g. banning SUVs, coal, and fracking, restarting nuclear, subsidizing solar, population control, etc), and what won't (banning plastic straws, putting recycle bins everywhere), and I think its wise to accept that humanity, in the best case, will undergo a (voluntary, controlled) Contraction. In the worst case, it will be involuntary, and catastrophic. That's it. Those are our only two options.
        heterodoxxed 5y ago
        I live in Trump country, too. Which means I know a handful of people (not even anywhere near a majority) love to throw their impotent tantrums and we need to stop letting that scare us.
        guerrilla 5y ago
        What do you think is the root of the problem? You say faith in humanity but do you mean these people are failing? If so, are they the cause of it or possibly the media they/we are consuming? If you agree with that and that vested interests influence that media then what can we do? It seems like a fatal cacth-22 for the kind of democracies we have.
        PicassoCTs 5y ago
        Try to see money as a ablative material that allows to set up "alternative" realities. It has to be worn down and away by conflict, refugee streams, economic, environmental and social collapse before actual change can happen.
karmickoala 5y ago
> individual action doesn't solve anything either. I share the sentiment, but I noticed that sometimes I use it as an excuse for not doing what I can within my reach. One benefit I see with individual action is that it's a way to stimulate political change (another one being economical). Plus, it may be contagious and make changes for the next generations. Thus, nothing prevents us from adopting bidirectional planning, i.e., both top-bottom (political, schools, etc.) and bottom-up (individual). It intuitively seems faster than top-bottom only.

just_one_time_ 5y ago

If rich people, like the guys here, stopped flying they could solve a lot of problems

heterodoxxed 5y ago

Public transportation, requiring biodegradable packaging and transitioning our energy grid doesn't have to be nasty.

javajosh 5y ago
No, but its certainly not enough.
- heterodoxxed 5y ago
  Restricting the greatest excesses of the rich and militaries (the US specifically) and some form of aggressive carbon sequestration, but I don't think any of that requires some kind of Year Zero political program.
  - javajosh 5y ago
    Indeed, and they will call it "The SUV war".
    - heterodoxxed 5y ago
      It seems to me this sort of cynicism is more about giving up without a fight than any kind of hardened realism.
      - javajosh 5y ago
        I live in Trump country. My faith in humanity is at its nadir. I won't give up, not ever. But I think its clear what will make a difference (e.g. banning SUVs, coal, and fracking, restarting nuclear, subsidizing solar, population control, etc), and what won't (banning plastic straws, putting recycle bins everywhere), and I think its wise to accept that humanity, in the best case, will undergo a (voluntary, controlled) Contraction. In the worst case, it will be involuntary, and catastrophic. That's it. Those are our only two options.
        heterodoxxed 5y ago
        I live in Trump country, too. Which means I know a handful of people (not even anywhere near a majority) love to throw their impotent tantrums and we need to stop letting that scare us.
        guerrilla 5y ago
        What do you think is the root of the problem? You say faith in humanity but do you mean these people are failing? If so, are they the cause of it or possibly the media they/we are consuming? If you agree with that and that vested interests influence that media then what can we do? It seems like a fatal cacth-22 for the kind of democracies we have.
      - PicassoCTs 5y ago
        Try to see money as a ablative material that allows to set up "alternative" realities. It has to be worn down and away by conflict, refugee streams, economic, environmental and social collapse before actual change can happen.

karmickoala 5y ago

> individual action doesn't solve anything either. I share the sentiment, but I noticed that sometimes I use it as an excuse for not doing what I can within my reach. One benefit I see with individual action is that it's a way to stimulate political change (another one being economical). Plus, it may be contagious and make changes for the next generations. Thus, nothing prevents us from adopting bidirectional planning, i.e., both top-bottom (political, schools, etc.) and bottom-up (individual). It intuitively seems faster than top-bottom only.