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I am fine with GMO and other genetic technology in principle. But I am not happy about GMO with the sole purpose of deploying more and more herbicides. Unfortun

I am fine with GMO and other genetic technology in principle. But I am not happy about GMO with the sole purpose of deploying more and more herbicides. Unfortunately that's what it has been about mostly in the past.

AnimalMuppet 5y ago
Not sure I agree with that. There have been several GMOs that improve yields, or improve nutrition ("golden rice").
- Loughla 5y ago
  Yes, but OP's point is that GMO has been mostly used to enable chemical use. I am inclined to agree with them, without data. BT corn, roundup ready corn and beans, and other herbicide tolerant strains of common field crops are very, very prevalent and enable the use of not just more glyphosate to compensate for resistance in the weeds, but also accompanying chemicals for the same reasons.
  - asdff 5y ago
    There is more to this narrative than meets the eye. Before roundup ready crops we used far worse herbicides and pesticides that are much more prevalent in runoff and in the local ecology, like atrazine, metribuzin, and alachlor. So while they use more pounds per acre in some cases, it's usually stuff that is far less harmful to the environment. BT corn is brilliant. Bt has been used in organic farming for 50 years and doesn't harm people or animals or pollinators. Having the corn produce it directly rather than having to spray excess amounts of it regularly over your crops is a boon. You use far less since it's concentrated at the site where it matters: in the tissue the insect bites into. We have to take these measures. If we didn't treat with pesticides and herbicides, we go back to biblical plague levels of insect blight and are unable to feed our population. It happens even in backyard gardens. I've seen cabbage loopers turn my tomato plant into swiss cheese in a matter of days.
    - Loughla 5y ago
      Oh, I 100% agree with you. There is no going back, without massive famine and death. Glyphosate causing cancer is, I would bet, going to be mostly ignored due to the unbelievable human suffering that would occur if it was banned. Again, though, the point of OP was not that more is used, or better chemical are used, it was that GMO has, in terms of row crops, been mostly organized around chemical use. That stands true, in my opinion, regardless of whether the chemicals are more or less harmful.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> But I am not happy about GMO with the sole purpose of deploying more and more herbicides. If you want to deal with herbicide use (or pesticides more generally), target that, not GMOs. Because targeting GMOs means that while the existing major established uses with a sold revenue model can find ways to take the hit — so the big herbicide producing chemical/GMO giants are only modestly inconvenienced, and their tweaks and refinements to their existing products barely affected — all the startups doing development of GMOs for yield and nutrition traits which are more speculative, higher risk, and not as politically connected are screwed.

AnimalMuppet 5y ago

Not sure I agree with that. There have been several GMOs that improve yields, or improve nutrition ("golden rice").

Loughla 5y ago
Yes, but OP's point is that GMO has been mostly used to enable chemical use. I am inclined to agree with them, without data. BT corn, roundup ready corn and beans, and other herbicide tolerant strains of common field crops are very, very prevalent and enable the use of not just more glyphosate to compensate for resistance in the weeds, but also accompanying chemicals for the same reasons.
- asdff 5y ago
  There is more to this narrative than meets the eye. Before roundup ready crops we used far worse herbicides and pesticides that are much more prevalent in runoff and in the local ecology, like atrazine, metribuzin, and alachlor. So while they use more pounds per acre in some cases, it's usually stuff that is far less harmful to the environment. BT corn is brilliant. Bt has been used in organic farming for 50 years and doesn't harm people or animals or pollinators. Having the corn produce it directly rather than having to spray excess amounts of it regularly over your crops is a boon. You use far less since it's concentrated at the site where it matters: in the tissue the insect bites into. We have to take these measures. If we didn't treat with pesticides and herbicides, we go back to biblical plague levels of insect blight and are unable to feed our population. It happens even in backyard gardens. I've seen cabbage loopers turn my tomato plant into swiss cheese in a matter of days.
  - Loughla 5y ago
    Oh, I 100% agree with you. There is no going back, without massive famine and death. Glyphosate causing cancer is, I would bet, going to be mostly ignored due to the unbelievable human suffering that would occur if it was banned. Again, though, the point of OP was not that more is used, or better chemical are used, it was that GMO has, in terms of row crops, been mostly organized around chemical use. That stands true, in my opinion, regardless of whether the chemicals are more or less harmful.

dragonwriter 5y ago

> But I am not happy about GMO with the sole purpose of deploying more and more herbicides. If you want to deal with herbicide use (or pesticides more generally), target that, not GMOs. Because targeting GMOs means that while the existing major established uses with a sold revenue model can find ways to take the hit — so the big herbicide producing chemical/GMO giants are only modestly inconvenienced, and their tweaks and refinements to their existing products barely affected — all the startups doing development of GMOs for yield and nutrition traits which are more speculative, higher risk, and not as politically connected are screwed.