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But only through carelessness. They thought they were shooting at a Ukrainian military transport plane.

by jeltz 5y ago

baybal2 5y ago
No carelessness, that's exactly what they were told to do: shoot down everything that flies. That was their explicit order.
- nGW56Nak60 5y ago
  Russia had no reasons to take down that plane. The air space was open with planes flying over Donbas every day. A bunch of monkeys mistook it for a Ukrainian military plane and blew it up.
  - baybal2 5y ago
    No, it was an explicit order, close down the airspace no matter what. This implied shooting everything that flies in the most literal sense. They knew fully they were shooting a civilian plane.
    - goatsi 5y ago
      In the celebratory Facebook post right after the shooting they claimed it was a military transport. In the intercepted cell phone call by a militant to a commander from the crash site they find out it's a civilian plane because they find the bodies and luggage. https://www.cnn.com/2014/07/18/world/europe/ukraine-mh17-intercepted-audio/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2014/07/18/world/europe/ukraine-mh17-int...
- sofixa 5y ago
  Do you have a source for that? The official investigation concluded it was a mistake by poorly trained soldiers who thought they were downing a military An-26 plane. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17
  - drran 5y ago
    Sources are in Russian. Russian separatists told shortly after the incident: "В районе Тореза только что сбили самолет Ан-26, валяется где-то за шахтой Прогресс. Предупреждали же - не летать в "нашем небе". А вот и видео-подтверждение очередного "птичкопада". Птичка упала за террикон, жилой сектор не зацепила. Мирные люди не пострадали. А также еще есть информация о втором сбитом самолете, вроде бы Су", - говорится в сообщении Стрелкова. "In the area of Torez, an An-26 plane has just been shot down, lying somewhere behind the Progress mine. We warned not to fly in our sky. And here is a video confirmation of the next birdfall. Civilians were not injured. And there is also information about the second downed plane, like Su, "- said in the message of Strelkov.
    - baybal2 5y ago
      Also https://youtu.be/_rbzlMeGToI?t=83 https://youtu.be/_rbzlMeGToI?t=83 the "Cossack" referred in other tapes as a unit commander to whom the battery belonged pretty much says "and so? fuck them, we'll say they are spies, it's war" It's surprising to see it being 7 years since, and there are still people from the West still dead convinced in finding "alternative facts." There is one, and only ground truth. A battery had an order to "shoot everything that flies," and that's what they did within hours of the order.
      - sofixa 5y ago
        What? Look at the transcript again, they're wondering why it's a civilian plane and not an An-26, and thinking of a way to deal with that...
        baybal2 5y ago
        He is not looking for a way to "deal with it," he very well knows what's going on, and aware of the order, and tell the caller to fuck off. There is no "alternative facts" there. An order to shoot everything that flies, and they did it. There are hours, and hours of Ukrainian intercepts, probably listened by every Western intelligence agency 100 times over. If that doesn't seal the deal, it's for people who fully willingly choosing to believe in a lie for sake of playing a cause celebre. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot#:~:text=In%20political%20jargon%2C%20a%20useful,used%20by%20the%20cause's%20leaders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot#:~:text=In%20poli.... Ukrainians blew their extremely valuable intercept source to bring this to attention of the world. Now, seven year later, EU keeps soiling their pants, and still can't gather enough courage to point a finger on Russia. They are trying their hardest to pretend that they don't know what's going on. Even if the shutdown was genuinely inadvertent, it would still be a cause for an immediate retaliation to any normal country.

But only through carelessness. They thought they were shooting at a Ukrainian military transport plane.

by jeltz 5y ago

But only through carelessness. They thought they were shooting at a Ukrainian military transport plane.

No carelessness, that's exactly what they were told to do: shoot down everything that flies. That was their explicit order.

nGW56Nak60 5y ago
Russia had no reasons to take down that plane. The air space was open with planes flying over Donbas every day. A bunch of monkeys mistook it for a Ukrainian military plane and blew it up.
- baybal2 5y ago
  No, it was an explicit order, close down the airspace no matter what. This implied shooting everything that flies in the most literal sense. They knew fully they were shooting a civilian plane.
  - goatsi 5y ago
    In the celebratory Facebook post right after the shooting they claimed it was a military transport. In the intercepted cell phone call by a militant to a commander from the crash site they find out it's a civilian plane because they find the bodies and luggage. https://www.cnn.com/2014/07/18/world/europe/ukraine-mh17-intercepted-audio/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2014/07/18/world/europe/ukraine-mh17-int...
sofixa 5y ago
Do you have a source for that? The official investigation concluded it was a mistake by poorly trained soldiers who thought they were downing a military An-26 plane. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17
- drran 5y ago
  Sources are in Russian. Russian separatists told shortly after the incident: "В районе Тореза только что сбили самолет Ан-26, валяется где-то за шахтой Прогресс. Предупреждали же - не летать в "нашем небе". А вот и видео-подтверждение очередного "птичкопада". Птичка упала за террикон, жилой сектор не зацепила. Мирные люди не пострадали. А также еще есть информация о втором сбитом самолете, вроде бы Су", - говорится в сообщении Стрелкова. "In the area of Torez, an An-26 plane has just been shot down, lying somewhere behind the Progress mine. We warned not to fly in our sky. And here is a video confirmation of the next birdfall. Civilians were not injured. And there is also information about the second downed plane, like Su, "- said in the message of Strelkov.
  - baybal2 5y ago
    Also https://youtu.be/_rbzlMeGToI?t=83 https://youtu.be/_rbzlMeGToI?t=83 the "Cossack" referred in other tapes as a unit commander to whom the battery belonged pretty much says "and so? fuck them, we'll say they are spies, it's war" It's surprising to see it being 7 years since, and there are still people from the West still dead convinced in finding "alternative facts." There is one, and only ground truth. A battery had an order to "shoot everything that flies," and that's what they did within hours of the order.
    - sofixa 5y ago
      What? Look at the transcript again, they're wondering why it's a civilian plane and not an An-26, and thinking of a way to deal with that...
      - baybal2 5y ago
        He is not looking for a way to "deal with it," he very well knows what's going on, and aware of the order, and tell the caller to fuck off. There is no "alternative facts" there. An order to shoot everything that flies, and they did it. There are hours, and hours of Ukrainian intercepts, probably listened by every Western intelligence agency 100 times over. If that doesn't seal the deal, it's for people who fully willingly choosing to believe in a lie for sake of playing a cause celebre. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot#:~:text=In%20political%20jargon%2C%20a%20useful,used%20by%20the%20cause's%20leaders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot#:~:text=In%20poli.... Ukrainians blew their extremely valuable intercept source to bring this to attention of the world. Now, seven year later, EU keeps soiling their pants, and still can't gather enough courage to point a finger on Russia. They are trying their hardest to pretend that they don't know what's going on. Even if the shutdown was genuinely inadvertent, it would still be a cause for an immediate retaliation to any normal country.