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There's so much here that I don't really know where to start. Maybe some history could be useful? When Chrome came along, the dominant browser was Internet Exp

There's so much here that I don't really know where to start. Maybe some history could be useful? When Chrome came along, the dominant browser was Internet Explorer 7. It had been out for two years when Chrome 1.0 was released. Before IE7, the world ran IE6 for five years. Web development was largely stagnant. That was the world that Chrome came into. Before DRM support was added to browsers, you needed to install plugins to watch protected content. Despite what detractors might think, the content producers were never going to go YOLO and release their content without any protection. There are a lot of us that are happy that we can watch Netflix, Prime or whatever in our browsers. That a ton of desktop apps use Electron is an indictment of the state of native toolkit. Saying that Fuchsia is highly dependent on Flutter is like saying Linux is highly dependent on GTK. With that said, maybe your crystal ball on the future of Fuchsia isn't so clear.

wutbrodo 5y ago
This is a valiant (and appreciated) effort, but I think you're misunderstanding the point of the thread. It's been _years_ since HN talking about Google has been nothing more than an enormous circlejerk, completely disconnected from reality.
rvz 5y ago
And so, the web has just switched hands from one behemoth to another. Nothing has changed since then. Now everyone depends on Chromium for almost everything. That is the point. The alternatives have no chance in doing anything about it. Firefox is entirely dependent on Google for funding (and has been for years), Microsoft recently switched to Chromium for Edge and Safari is again years behind (Just like IE.). There are only really two competitors here. (Apple and Google once again!) So let's sit back and just watch Google continuously adding more superfluous features into the Web like Web(USB, Bluetooth, NFC, etc) and the web-devs will force you to use Chrome again (which indirectly helps Electron apps); leaving the rest of the non-Chromium browsers in the dust. > Saying that Fuchsia is highly dependent on Flutter is like saying Linux is highly dependent on GTK. False equivalence. You're the one that just compared a kernel with full operating system. Oh dear. I'm definitely sure that the device in the article is running Flutter right now. > With that said, maybe your crystal ball on the future of Fuchsia isn't so clear. Given that Fuchsia also has the intention of running unmodified Android apps as well, my crystal ball could not be any more clearer of its future. Perhaps you getting confused on your last sentence was an indication that your crystal ball has just malfunctioned.
- vinkelhake 5y ago
  > Nothing has changed since then. There's a massive difference. Back then you had a single company that kinda-sorta didn't care about the web. They already had an application platform they were happy with. There wasn't really an incentive for them to evolve it once they had the dominant position. The web was stagnating for years. Nowadays we actually have multiple players that are very active in the development of the web. The situation is not at all comparable. > So let's sit back and just watch Google continuously adding more superfluous features into the Web like Web(USB, Bluetooth, NFC, etc) and the web-devs will force you to use Chrome again Superfluous to you. If developers are using it, then it's obviously filling some need. What do you say to developers who are asking for those features? "Sorry, that's not compatible with my idea of what the web is. Go write a {Windows,Linux,MacOs} application and tell your users to download it". It always comes back to this. People want progress in the areas they care about, but no progress in other areas.

wutbrodo 5y ago

This is a valiant (and appreciated) effort, but I think you're misunderstanding the point of the thread. It's been _years_ since HN talking about Google has been nothing more than an enormous circlejerk, completely disconnected from reality.

rvz 5y ago

And so, the web has just switched hands from one behemoth to another. Nothing has changed since then. Now everyone depends on Chromium for almost everything. That is the point. The alternatives have no chance in doing anything about it. Firefox is entirely dependent on Google for funding (and has been for years), Microsoft recently switched to Chromium for Edge and Safari is again years behind (Just like IE.). There are only really two competitors here. (Apple and Google once again!) So let's sit back and just watch Google continuously adding more superfluous features into the Web like Web(USB, Bluetooth, NFC, etc) and the web-devs will force you to use Chrome again (which indirectly helps Electron apps); leaving the rest of the non-Chromium browsers in the dust. > Saying that Fuchsia is highly dependent on Flutter is like saying Linux is highly dependent on GTK. False equivalence. You're the one that just compared a kernel with full operating system. Oh dear. I'm definitely sure that the device in the article is running Flutter right now. > With that said, maybe your crystal ball on the future of Fuchsia isn't so clear. Given that Fuchsia also has the intention of running unmodified Android apps as well, my crystal ball could not be any more clearer of its future. Perhaps you getting confused on your last sentence was an indication that your crystal ball has just malfunctioned.

vinkelhake 5y ago
> Nothing has changed since then. There's a massive difference. Back then you had a single company that kinda-sorta didn't care about the web. They already had an application platform they were happy with. There wasn't really an incentive for them to evolve it once they had the dominant position. The web was stagnating for years. Nowadays we actually have multiple players that are very active in the development of the web. The situation is not at all comparable. > So let's sit back and just watch Google continuously adding more superfluous features into the Web like Web(USB, Bluetooth, NFC, etc) and the web-devs will force you to use Chrome again Superfluous to you. If developers are using it, then it's obviously filling some need. What do you say to developers who are asking for those features? "Sorry, that's not compatible with my idea of what the web is. Go write a {Windows,Linux,MacOs} application and tell your users to download it". It always comes back to this. People want progress in the areas they care about, but no progress in other areas.