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I wonder what obligations the Swiss lords have been neglecting. Perhaps the townsfolk could bill for absent services? They are not peasants, as such things lik
by JoeAltmaier 5y ago
I wonder what obligations the Swiss lords have been neglecting. Perhaps the townsfolk could bill for absent services?
They are not peasants, as such things likely don't exist in modern Italy. So how can they owe anything?
The Swiss baron's descendants - are they still barons? Can they still hold a fief?
Perhaps the Swiss baron's lord can be convinced to levy a similar tax on them, and return the money to the town.
It's very interesting.
- AdrianB1 5y agoWhy do you assume taxes are a payment for services? In most cases there is no written contract with rights and obligations of each party and there is no implied right or obligation of any sort.
- JoeAltmaier 5y agoNo, not at all. But being a Baron over somebody may have obligations? If they were not rendered (it was all neglected for 60 years) perhaps something could be negotiated based on that. E.g. the baron provides protection - that certainly wasn't happening. And I do note that there's obligation to the Baron's lord. Doing an appeal there is another route.
- FpUser 5y ago>"Why do you assume taxes are a payment for services?" Because the only alternative in this case is the outright theft. >"there is no implied right or obligation of any sort." Sorry but there is implied obligation. I totally expect to get some services in return for money taken from me and I suspect I am not alone. For experiment try sending part of government that does actual services for constituents for a year long vacation and see what happens.
- kidme 5y agoThe easy loophole is to spend the money on corruption that benefits you. Like $10 goes to the road, 90$ goes to the road company that finances the road and gives 500k in lobbying money. This is trivial to get around. Just increase the tax $10.
- dantheman 5y agoTaxes are theft.
- w0de0 5y agoGive to Caeser what is the Caesar's.
- amanaplanacanal 5y agoSomebody else said "property is theft". Different strokes.
- clarkmoody 5y agoAlternate experiment: try to force the government to perform a service for you.
- FpUser 5y agoIt actually does happen every once in a while
- TheCoelacanth 5y agoThere are entire industries specialized on doing this. Search for "disability lawyer".
- Arrath 5y agoIf these descendants are trying to claim an old form of payment, why, in concept, can't the residents invoke a similarly old form of responsibility like Noblesse Oblige?
- rnhmjoj 5y agoFrom a quick search, it seems this "tax" is part of an ancient (roman law) land contract called Emphyteusis[1] that's still recognized as a valid by the italian civil codex, despite not being in common use. I don't think it has anything to do with special nobiliar priviledges: it's just that these barons claim to own land and the relative rights under this contract. Apparently, the land owner has no obligations, but the lease-holder instead is bound to pay an annual canon and "improve the land", whatever that means, perpetually. [1]: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enfiteusi https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enfiteusi
- tomcooks 5y agoYou don't have to serve a lord nor be a peasant, you pay for the use of "their" land. This happens in many other places in Italy. One example that comes to mind is a part of the money collected from fishing permits on Lake Maggiore (tragically famous lately for the Stress cabin disaster) going to the pockets of an aristocratic family who "owns" the lake and the fishing rights. Disgusting to say the least, but that's law.
- darkarmani 5y agoMaybe trial by combat?