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This is a bizarre take on the popularity of C. It completely ignores the notions of existing ecosystems (compilers for every platform, kernel code, immense numb

by kubb 5y ago

This is a bizarre take on the popularity of C. It completely ignores the notions of existing ecosystems (compilers for every platform, kernel code, immense number of APIs) and programmer population (C is taught in every uni). Instead it ties down C's popularity to the language's ability to separate interface from implementation via header files, and claims no other language can achieve that. It also overlooks the downsides of header files (like unnecessary recompilation).

deleted 5y ago
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kubb 5y ago
Upon some reflection, I could add to the list of reasons for the popularity of C: * Interop with every language. * Existing codebases. * Years of virtual platform excusivity in embedded systems, and OS. * Momentum (people like to get into things that are popular).
- qsort 5y ago
  I think the fundamental reason is that there aren't that many alternatives. Of course, if I were to write application software of any kind I wouldn't choose C, but for things like FFI/interop or embedded, anything that isn't C, C++ or Rust is a complete non-starter, and even C++ and Rust are often a stretch.
  - kaba0 5y ago
    How is C++ a stretch? I don’t think there is any domain left where C++ would not be applicable but C is.
    - lelanthran 5y ago
      > How is C++ a stretch? I don’t think there is any domain left where C++ would not be applicable but C is. Reusable code. Your library written in C++ can't be called as easily from Python, PHP, Perl, C, Pascal, Rust, Go or any of the other languages people like to use. Just do a search for uses of libffi and you'll get a pretty good idea why C is still more popular than C++.
      - xyzzyz 5y ago
        That’s not true. C++ code can be called from foreign languages just as easily as C, you just have to provide C-like interface and mark it as extern “C”.
        qsort 5y ago
        Sure, but that means I have to provide the interface myself. One of the main advantages of C++ over C is that you don't have to pass around pointers to structs, so you're stuck between using C++ as basically C, or duplicating every object the API needs to expose. Obviously you can make it work, and it probably makes a lot of sense for larger libraries where the advantages of working with C++ really pull their weight, but regardless, FFI is still one of the (admittedly fewer and fewer) niches where C shines.
        xyzzyz 5y ago
        > you're stuck between using C++ as basically C, or duplicating every object the API needs to expose Yes, you need to provide the C-like interface on the API boundary, but internally you can just use normal C++ for everything else. Sure, that C-like interface will not be as nice and comfortable as it would have been with C++ interface, but then again, neither it would be if you used C instead of C++. > FFI is still one of the (admittedly fewer and fewer) niches where C shines. No, it’s C linkage that shines, and C++ can use C linkage just fine.
        deleted 5y ago
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        lelanthran 5y ago
        > That’s not true. C++ code can be called from foreign languages just as easily as C, you just have to provide C-like interface and mark it as extern “C”. And ensure that you catch every exception and turn it into an error code?

by kubb 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

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kubb 5y ago

Upon some reflection, I could add to the list of reasons for the popularity of C: * Interop with every language. * Existing codebases. * Years of virtual platform excusivity in embedded systems, and OS. * Momentum (people like to get into things that are popular).

qsort 5y ago
I think the fundamental reason is that there aren't that many alternatives. Of course, if I were to write application software of any kind I wouldn't choose C, but for things like FFI/interop or embedded, anything that isn't C, C++ or Rust is a complete non-starter, and even C++ and Rust are often a stretch.
- kaba0 5y ago
  How is C++ a stretch? I don’t think there is any domain left where C++ would not be applicable but C is.
  - lelanthran 5y ago
    > How is C++ a stretch? I don’t think there is any domain left where C++ would not be applicable but C is. Reusable code. Your library written in C++ can't be called as easily from Python, PHP, Perl, C, Pascal, Rust, Go or any of the other languages people like to use. Just do a search for uses of libffi and you'll get a pretty good idea why C is still more popular than C++.
    - xyzzyz 5y ago
      That’s not true. C++ code can be called from foreign languages just as easily as C, you just have to provide C-like interface and mark it as extern “C”.
      - qsort 5y ago
        Sure, but that means I have to provide the interface myself. One of the main advantages of C++ over C is that you don't have to pass around pointers to structs, so you're stuck between using C++ as basically C, or duplicating every object the API needs to expose. Obviously you can make it work, and it probably makes a lot of sense for larger libraries where the advantages of working with C++ really pull their weight, but regardless, FFI is still one of the (admittedly fewer and fewer) niches where C shines.
        xyzzyz 5y ago
        > you're stuck between using C++ as basically C, or duplicating every object the API needs to expose Yes, you need to provide the C-like interface on the API boundary, but internally you can just use normal C++ for everything else. Sure, that C-like interface will not be as nice and comfortable as it would have been with C++ interface, but then again, neither it would be if you used C instead of C++. > FFI is still one of the (admittedly fewer and fewer) niches where C shines. No, it’s C linkage that shines, and C++ can use C linkage just fine.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - lelanthran 5y ago
        > That’s not true. C++ code can be called from foreign languages just as easily as C, you just have to provide C-like interface and mark it as extern “C”. And ensure that you catch every exception and turn it into an error code?