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Fuchsia, like Chrome, has been open-source for years, and all commits and reviews as well as the bug tracker are public. It is a very different model from how A

Fuchsia, like Chrome, has been open-source for years, and all commits and reviews as well as the bug tracker are public. It is a very different model from how Android releases work. (Disclaimer: I work on Fuchsia at Google.)

tmccrary55 5y ago
Good thing trusty google never changes direction or policies and that fuschia is copyleft, so it can never be closed in the future.
kemonocode 5y ago
The fact it's more permissive with its license already does not bode well. Just like with Chrome, there could be a myriad of forks that can be closed source themselves and so without easy means to peek inside what they're really doing, and although many distributors did the bare minimum with Android due to its Linux kernel's license, there was something.
dmantis 5y ago
Chrome is not open-sourced, Chronium is. I cannot rebuild Chrome with full protection against tracking, for example, but with all other parts unchanged. Android "open sourced" as well, but literally nobody runs AOSP, stock OSS apps are staled for years, Google makes a lot to make system barely usable without proprietary parts from Google Services.
- kerneis 5y ago
  That's a fair point, and the distinction between Chrome and Chromium is indeed relevant. Sorry for the confusion, see my sibling comment about how it applies to Fuchsia (ie. what is open source and what may not be). What I really meant to say, though, is that Fuchsia is taking an approach to inclusiveness and open source which is much more similar to the one of Chromium than Android. You may find out more on https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/concepts/principles/inclusive https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/concepts/principles/inclusiv...
ori_b 5y ago
How many of your colleagues are outside Google?
- kerneis 5y ago
  I'm not sure I understand the question, but you may be interested in the following article about Samsung contributing to Fuchsia: https://9to5google.com/2021/05/12/samsung-contributing-f2fs-google-fuchsia/ https://9to5google.com/2021/05/12/samsung-contributing-f2fs-...
  - hn8788 5y ago
    They're probably talking about things like Go where it's open source, but it's controlled by Google employees. https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/programming/GoIsGooglesLanguage https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/programming/GoIsGoo...
  - ori_b 5y ago
    Your implication is that Google is not treating Fuchsia as a 'throw it over the wall' project, but as one with community participation. How many of your colleagues are from outside of Google? How often do you work with non-googlers as you develop it? Are you regularly reviewing code submitted by your colleages at Samsung? The fact that you're confused by the concept of working with people outside your company doesn't bode well for the open-sourceness of this project.
ryukafalz 5y ago
So, if I buy a device that runs Fuchsia (say, this Nest Hub), is enough of Fuchsia FOSS that I can run my own copy of it with e.g. a different UI and without Google services? This is true of Android devices by necessity as the kernel is GPL (bootloader locking aside); is it true of Fuchsia devices? As for bootloader locking, Google releases some Android devices with unlockable bootloaders. Can we expect the same of Fuchsia devices?
- hibbelig 5y ago
  Are unlockable bootloaders bootloaders that cannot be locked, or bootloaders that can be unlocked? Not a native speaker. Hm. I think it is about bootloaders that can be unlocked.
  - tmerc 5y ago
    In this case, unlockable means it can be unlocked. As a native American English speaker, I have not seen unlockable used as "cannot be locked", but both definitions are in the Oxford dictionary. If I understand correctly, a locked bootloader prevents you from installing a different OS or rooting a device you might "own".
  - techrat 5y ago
    "Unlockable" == "The option exists for the user to unlock the bootloader if they wish to do so." Even as a native speaker, it can get awkward explaining 'unlockable bootloaders' because the impliction is that they're first locked if they can be later unlocked... when there are also locked bootloaders that CANNOT be unlocked. It's better to just assume 'unlockable' means 'not restricted.'
- surajrmal 5y ago
  While the platform may be open source, the product may not be. We have products which are completely open source, but the one being used for the Nest Hub is not. This is similar to the idea where you may use Linux for the bottom half of an OS, but the top half may be something else entirety. Different products may make different decisions, but a common core is used amongst all products.
forgotpwd16 5y ago
Is Fuchsia meant only for embedded devices (smart displays, smartphones, etc) or will there be laptop releases akin to Chromebooks?
- DenverCode 5y ago
  >We’ve been tracking the development of Fuchsia since 2016, starting from an ambitious experimental UI, to running on Google’s many internal testing devices for Fuchsia, ranging the full gamut of Google’s smart home and Chromebook lineup.
- kerneis 5y ago
  If you are interested in running Fuchsia on a laptop or desktop device, you probably want to follow the Workstation product effort: - https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/contribute/roadmap/2021/workstation_out_of_tree https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/contribute/roadmap/2021/work... - https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/contribute/governance/rfcs/0095_build_and_assemble_workstation_out_of_tree https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/contribute/governance/rfcs/0... And as mentioned elsewhere, you can already build Fuchsia for an Intel NUC, with keyboard, mouse, ethernet and external screen support: https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/development/hardware/intel_nuc https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/development/hardware/intel_n...
- Zambyte 5y ago
  Smart phones are definitely general purpose computers

tmccrary55 5y ago

Good thing trusty google never changes direction or policies and that fuschia is copyleft, so it can never be closed in the future.

kemonocode 5y ago

The fact it's more permissive with its license already does not bode well. Just like with Chrome, there could be a myriad of forks that can be closed source themselves and so without easy means to peek inside what they're really doing, and although many distributors did the bare minimum with Android due to its Linux kernel's license, there was something.

dmantis 5y ago

Chrome is not open-sourced, Chronium is. I cannot rebuild Chrome with full protection against tracking, for example, but with all other parts unchanged. Android "open sourced" as well, but literally nobody runs AOSP, stock OSS apps are staled for years, Google makes a lot to make system barely usable without proprietary parts from Google Services.

kerneis 5y ago
That's a fair point, and the distinction between Chrome and Chromium is indeed relevant. Sorry for the confusion, see my sibling comment about how it applies to Fuchsia (ie. what is open source and what may not be). What I really meant to say, though, is that Fuchsia is taking an approach to inclusiveness and open source which is much more similar to the one of Chromium than Android. You may find out more on https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/concepts/principles/inclusive https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/concepts/principles/inclusiv...

ori_b 5y ago

How many of your colleagues are outside Google?

kerneis 5y ago
I'm not sure I understand the question, but you may be interested in the following article about Samsung contributing to Fuchsia: https://9to5google.com/2021/05/12/samsung-contributing-f2fs-google-fuchsia/ https://9to5google.com/2021/05/12/samsung-contributing-f2fs-...
- hn8788 5y ago
  They're probably talking about things like Go where it's open source, but it's controlled by Google employees. https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/programming/GoIsGooglesLanguage https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/programming/GoIsGoo...
- ori_b 5y ago
  Your implication is that Google is not treating Fuchsia as a 'throw it over the wall' project, but as one with community participation. How many of your colleagues are from outside of Google? How often do you work with non-googlers as you develop it? Are you regularly reviewing code submitted by your colleages at Samsung? The fact that you're confused by the concept of working with people outside your company doesn't bode well for the open-sourceness of this project.

ryukafalz 5y ago

So, if I buy a device that runs Fuchsia (say, this Nest Hub), is enough of Fuchsia FOSS that I can run my own copy of it with e.g. a different UI and without Google services? This is true of Android devices by necessity as the kernel is GPL (bootloader locking aside); is it true of Fuchsia devices? As for bootloader locking, Google releases some Android devices with unlockable bootloaders. Can we expect the same of Fuchsia devices?

hibbelig 5y ago
Are unlockable bootloaders bootloaders that cannot be locked, or bootloaders that can be unlocked? Not a native speaker. Hm. I think it is about bootloaders that can be unlocked.
- tmerc 5y ago
  In this case, unlockable means it can be unlocked. As a native American English speaker, I have not seen unlockable used as "cannot be locked", but both definitions are in the Oxford dictionary. If I understand correctly, a locked bootloader prevents you from installing a different OS or rooting a device you might "own".
- techrat 5y ago
  "Unlockable" == "The option exists for the user to unlock the bootloader if they wish to do so." Even as a native speaker, it can get awkward explaining 'unlockable bootloaders' because the impliction is that they're first locked if they can be later unlocked... when there are also locked bootloaders that CANNOT be unlocked. It's better to just assume 'unlockable' means 'not restricted.'
surajrmal 5y ago
While the platform may be open source, the product may not be. We have products which are completely open source, but the one being used for the Nest Hub is not. This is similar to the idea where you may use Linux for the bottom half of an OS, but the top half may be something else entirety. Different products may make different decisions, but a common core is used amongst all products.

forgotpwd16 5y ago

Is Fuchsia meant only for embedded devices (smart displays, smartphones, etc) or will there be laptop releases akin to Chromebooks?

DenverCode 5y ago
>We’ve been tracking the development of Fuchsia since 2016, starting from an ambitious experimental UI, to running on Google’s many internal testing devices for Fuchsia, ranging the full gamut of Google’s smart home and Chromebook lineup.
kerneis 5y ago
If you are interested in running Fuchsia on a laptop or desktop device, you probably want to follow the Workstation product effort: - https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/contribute/roadmap/2021/workstation_out_of_tree https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/contribute/roadmap/2021/work... - https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/contribute/governance/rfcs/0095_build_and_assemble_workstation_out_of_tree https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/contribute/governance/rfcs/0... And as mentioned elsewhere, you can already build Fuchsia for an Intel NUC, with keyboard, mouse, ethernet and external screen support: https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/development/hardware/intel_nuc https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/development/hardware/intel_n...
Zambyte 5y ago
Smart phones are definitely general purpose computers